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Soldier beats a woman unconscious, gets a great reference from his CO. Jailed after appeal

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    No, but you don’t want them to make decisions based on personal feelings, do you? The same way you want a surgeon to remain detached and keep a cool head.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,368 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    On the face of it the mitigation in this case is quite high.

    Guilty plea, his young age, first time offence, his background and work history. It wouldn't be unique that a suspended sentence was handed out in these circumstances.

    The judge was correct when he stated the case could drag on for another year or 2, but the claim that the victim was spared the hassle of a trial is an assumption. She could have welcomed a trial to get every detail of what he did on the record. She seems a very strong person. It's not clear in the article but she appears to suggest she would have welcomed a trial, that she was traumatised anyway.

    There was multiple witnesses and the attack was recorded, so the Judge should have gave him zero for a guilty plea. Even considering the cost and timing. Guilty pleas should definitely be rewarded, but this isn't one of them.

    The aggregating factors in this case are immense. Young lady walking home from her job attacked. That is about as serious as it gets in terms of circumstances. The sustained brutality of the assault and the resulting physical and mental injuries pushing this again into the higher bracket of seriousness.

    But what certainly pushes it into a custodial sentence is 2 factors. The fact he grabbed her hair, effectively held the back of her head as he punched her, that's how you kill someone, your head cannot go backwards to at least minimise the blows.

    And the icing on the cake for me was gloating on social media "hours later". What sort of fúcking cretin gloats about beating up a girl to his friends?

    The DPP should definitely appeal it if they actually have grounds to do so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,778 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    It wouldn't be justice at all - the judge in this trial is still free to go on making horrendous judgements like this as he has in past and will likely continue to do.

    At this stage it's judges who are denying justice to victims. The untouchable legal caste

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,880 ✭✭✭SeanW


    I think we need a mechanism to impeach judges in this country over madness like this. It's absolutely insane. As to the Army - WTF? Are they trying to emulate the Russian Army or something? Giving cover for violent sociopaths is something I'd expect from the Russians as they need bodies for their insane war of aggression in Ukraine, but what on Earth are officers of the Irish army trying to accomplish here?

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    Help us in helping Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    In Fairness you are doing a daily Mail on it .

    He was asked how was crottys army time up to that, he answered as required, he also said he was extremely shocked, sickened and appalled by Crottys actions that night, as we all are.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,411 ✭✭✭lmao10


    It just makes a show of the country that this even happened in court. Makes us look very backward. The member of the defence forces doing that in court just adds insult to injury. Everything about the case is just a damning indictment of the judicial system and the defence forces come out looking terrible here too in my view. Horrific stuff all round.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,146 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Nailed it here with the nuts n bolts of the case.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,146 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    No idea what you are on about.

    He's a human, not a fooking robot. So what if he is a member of the defence forces. Does this preclude him from saying he was horrified and disgusted that a man could batter a woman like what Crotty did? No, he was disappointed…….says a lot about the individual who stood up with the glowing words of commendation for Crotty

    Your point has no relevance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 43,368 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    That is a myth.

    Murder is a complete life sentence but rarely does that sentence get served custodially.

    A parole board will always take into account a guilty plea, understanding of ones crime and effects on the victims, etc.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 7,735 ✭✭✭jj880


    Jaysus this thread would make ye wonder what kind of country we're living in regarding the authorities and people in general. We have a report from a prison worker that says judges have been told not to jail scumbags like this. Another report from an ex army member saying it's optional for commanding officers to give a character reference. Christ almighty.

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  • Posts: 419 ✭✭ Kenzie Flabby Poltergeist


    True, but some form of rough justice for this scrote..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Jequ0n


    And I don’t understand why you are so upset by his choice of words, just because they are not the ones you’d have chosen yourself. It’s not a reflection on his character.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    You don't get the whole legal obligations and under oath thing.

    So if the Judge or a barrister had asked you to read out Crottys army reviews to date. You would have told him to jump.

    Crotty would buy you a pint..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,146 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    I think it is a reflection. First reflection is the very fact that he made a conscious decision to stand up in court to give a character reference BEFORE a decision was made, and knowing full well what this man did to that woman.

    He was not compelled to do this. Then, his reference is all about how good:upstanding this man was as a soldier. The reference has to impact and resonate in the judgment in this case. Oh, but I guess he did add that he was disappointed…

    So yes, an absolute reflection on what type person Togher is



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,359 ✭✭✭✭bucketybuck


    Why was he legally obligated to speak in court?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    When you are called as a witness. You have to go.

    When the judge or a barrister asks you to read out the soldiers history to date, you have to answer.

    The reason this crotty shi7 is out is that there is no jail places. We have had 25 years of rich progressives talking about no more hang em high Judges, mitigating factors of social oppression and exclusion, that jail is not the best recourse but is "regressive".

    As for the person above saying that suspended sentences are not usually given out for such brutal assaults. Where have you been hiding?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,051 ✭✭✭Caquas


    Wrong.

    Plenty of suspended sentences for assault, of course, but none for an unprovoked attacked which put a complete stranger in hospital. In the case you linked to even the prosecution agreed there was provocation - an earlier argument.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,146 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Where was it that Togher had to attend and speak in court? As a citizen of the state, what in this case was it that Togher absolutely had to attend court and give that reference? Am I missing something?

    Anyway, I stand by my assertion: I'd ether refuse to attend or attend and say I have nothing to say about this animal….and I'd accept the consequences of that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 559 ✭✭✭Madd Finn


    Sure.

    The judge specifically said the €3,000 was "without prejudice to any civil action that may be taken in the future." Which means it will have no bearing on any litigation she may choose to take.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Called by defense .

    I had to testify in court previously and it was clear on the summons that I would be brought to court if not attending.

    I was for the defense and secured a conviction against a drugged up scrote who beat up a neighbour and punched a 80 year old woman.

    I have no doubt that he would have killed the neighbour if I hadn't intervened, the guard arresting him said he was the most out of it he had ever seen.

    He was already inside at the time of the Court case and is out now. Got out early and didn't serve time for that particular incident



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy




  • Moderators, Education Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 12,355 Mod ✭✭✭✭artanevilla


    I believe this is a mistake by the media, they almost use the word "officer" like you might call a policeman "officer" rather than him actually having a commision.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,146 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    You'll need to elaborate. Why would Crotty buy me two pints for refusing to provide a glowing reference for him, or for standing up to say I have nothing to say about this animal?



  • Posts: 832 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Togher's description of an "exemplary, courteous, professional and disciplined" soldier will echo around the tribunal chambers when it comes to the credibility of the testimony of the DF in response to the allegations of abuse suffered by women at the hands of serving men. Afaic the defence forces have shot themselves in the foot, quite literally.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,242 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    Yet he did say exactly what you think he should have said but you pretend otherwise, for your own reasons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,575 ✭✭✭Rows Grower


    walshb have you been watching Al Pacino?

    "Very soon we are going to Mars. You wouldn't have been going to Mars if my opponent won, that I can tell you. You wouldn't even be thinking about it."

    Donald Trump, March 13th 2018.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,146 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    You're talking in riddles….what is your point here?

    I am pretending what? You're making no sense.

    You'll need to buy me pints the way this is going



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭forumdedum


    I would say we all know people who work in particular jobs for many years and eventually lose interest, don't keep up to date, go through the motions etc. Just collect the pay packet etc. While not completely excusable it just happens. Judges are no different. Just keep them for 10 years max, then replace them because this has so much impact on society.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 71 ✭✭DialecticAspirations


    Insane. Caught on camera and everything. What is going on with Irish judges these days??



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 60,146 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Where did the judge in this case suggest/imply/say that the reason Crotty is not in jail is because there are no jail spaces? Absolute nonsense. He is not in jail because his career is more important than justice….and didn't he plead guilty, doing that poor woman such a favor. This judge was not ordered to not jail Crotty due to a lack of jail/prison spaces

    Do judges now have some algorithm that tells them there are 0 jail spaces, so you must NOT jail?

    Jail spaces are not the remit of judges. It's nothing to do with them. They pass sentence.



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