Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Russia-Ukraine War

12122242627208

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    The west probably don't want any confusion on the Russian side.

    Imagine a few NATO jets skirting the border with Russia or in the Black Sea and all of a sudden a few Russian planes get downed along with missiles raining down on airfields. Is it the start of a NATO strike on Russia or did the west allow Ukraine strike Russian targets etc....

    I know it's far fetched, but only takes a spark to ignite a tinderbox.

    There's also the public pressure on other Western countries when one announces they will allow Ukraine strike on Russian soil.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,727 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    That wouldn't work. Missiles can be tracked from origin i.e. no denyability.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    Tracked by UK (maybe) whom the message in such a hypothetical scenario be aimed at, who might or might not decide to do anything about, I highly doubt the Tories care about Ireland being on a receiving end of a missile, if anything the cynic in me would think no10 would tell the alarmed generals to just sit back as having Ireland be attacked and forced to militarise would save them having to mind that back door

    Anyways We can’t track **** as we don’t have primary radar

    Never mind actually do anything about it

    Now that I think of it North Koreans regularly lob rockets in direction of likes of Japan, one spectacularly disintegrating only a couple of days ago, tho of course the Japanese had the radar and air sirens to warn their populations

    Edit: here



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,083 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    And also dont forget this .. Push back Russia in Russia to make it more difficult to strick Ukraine from artilliary positions YIP. But also I imagine this means surely that Ukraine can now strike jets and bombers OVER Russia that are firing those glide bombs into Ukraine. As in attack them at source before launch if possible



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,002 ✭✭✭ToweringPerformance


    Well if the west refuses to deal with the Putin problem anything is possible. Cowardness gets us nowhere



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    That’s actually a very useful capability to couple with F16s, HIMARs and whatever ground based network they have



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,330 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    Would they not like the Russian radar planes that Ukraine destroyed not be easy targets for Russia? I meant at least F16s would have the speed to try and get away from something that is attacking it I can't imagine those planes have the same capability to do that. Or like that probably used half way in Ukraine but can still pick up signals in Russian territory.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,999 ✭✭✭thomil


    If the aircraft were on its own, you'd be right. However, this is meant to be used as part of an integrated system. And as a Swedish system, it just happens to be fully compatible with NATO systems & infrastructure. Hey, just because you're neutral that doesn't mean you can't build your systems for the bigger export market, am I right? As such, it can seamlessly integrate with the F-16s that Ukraine is getting, which further indicate that, once they get delivered, they will be used in a defensive role, at least at first.

    What's more, these aircraft will require extensive crew training before they can be operated effectively. The flight crew is easy enough, the aircraft looks like it is based on the popular SAAB 340 commuter/regional airliner and as such, any commercial pilot with a type rating for that can fly it. The mission commander and radar operators/controllers are another matter. Unless training has already started, it'll be a while before this system becomes operational. I'd guess that the first F-16 squadron in Ukraine will be operational long before the first of these AEW platforms comes online.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    Russian missiles are only capable of hitting shopping centers and kindergartens, these planes are neither



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,083 ✭✭✭aidanodr


    Was listening to a guy on Times Radio on Youtube ( link below ). He was discussing the F16s and Ukraine. He is Prof. Justin Bronk of the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI)

    Anyway, he said issue with F16s is they have one engine and are not at all forgiving of any gravel or detritus stuff on a runway, the runway has to be kept well repaired and requires 2, 3 times daily of a number of personel to check up and down the runway before F16s take off or land. This because the one engine in the F16 can suck in all this crap and basically boom. The russian migs on the other hand are 2 engined and way more forgiving in that respect.

    So a thought he did say was of course Russia, if F16s arrive, will spend every hour shelling bombing any runways in Ukraine where F16s are or could use.

    Have a listen .. interested in what ye think



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,412 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    Poland has trained to use highways for F16'S to take off and land on. I'm sure Ukraine can have contingency plans in place during large scale missile attacks. I mean they are not going to leave the jets sitting on the tarmac when missiles are inbound.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,348 ✭✭✭Field east


    Putin’s reason for his current incursions towards Kherson is to create a buffer zone in that area and obviously on UKr territory having achieved that he will then move north and south of the area to extend the buffer zone..

    I assume that Putin has not ‘patented’ the strategy or have the sole right/franchise for the creation of buffer zones

    So, what’s stopping UKr to create a buffer zone between itself and Russia BUT ON THE RUSSIAN SIDE OF THE BORDER. As a matter of fact since UKr is not daily attacking Russia on Russia territory BUT Russia is daily attacking UKr from Russian territory then UKr has A VERY LOGICAL REASON to create a buffer zone on the Russian side



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,007 ✭✭✭jmreire


    Yes. They can be tracked, but if they arrive out of the blue, then no knowing what Putin's reaction might be. Better he now knows in advance that military targets inside Russia are now legitimate, and Ukraine has the weapons to hit them. Then surprise him by hitting off limit sites .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,999 ✭✭✭thomil


    @aidanodr

    This talk about the F-16s being overly sensitive is blown a bit out of proportion as far as I'm concerned. ANY jet engine is susceptible to FOD (Foreign Objects & Debris) and the F-16 in that regard is no different to the Eurofighter Typhoon, Rafale, or any other jet aircraft. In fact, I'd say that the Ryanair plane that takes you to your holiday destination is going to be more vulnerable to FOD than the F-16, simply because the 737's engines are significantly closer to the ground. Russian jet aircraft are just as vulnerable to this as western aircraft are, the turbine blades of their jet engines aren't made of adamantium or anything. The one exception to this is the MiG-29, simply because that aircraft has secondary air intakes on the top of the fuselage and doors that can close off the main intakes when operating from rough field. But they're unique as far as I'm aware, I don't recall the more advanced Russian fighters having this system installed.

    Airfield are a target in war anyways, regardless of what aircraft are based there. Even with the ongoing supply shortages, Ukraine's air defense network now is in a far better condition than it was back in 2022 when Russia first attempted, and failed, to take out the Ukrainian Air Force. While I do not subscribe to the point of view sometimes shared on here that the Russian armed forces are completely decrepit, incompetent and incapable of learning, their track record so far does not lead me to believe that they are in any way, shape or form ready for the type of anti-air campaign that would be needed to take out the operating airfields of the Ukrainian Air Force. There were indications during the first months of the war that the UkrAF had a policy of rotating their aircraft between bases at random in order to minimize their vulnerability to Russian attacks. If they keep up that policy, the F-16 fleet, once it starts arriving, should be okay.

    Good luck trying to figure me out. I haven't managed that myself yet!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,039 ✭✭✭Polar101


    Makes me wonder what kind of "military training" can the French provide to a country that has been at war for 10 years. Do they just mean troops on the ground or what?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,727 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    French weapons training? Advanced weapons perhaps.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    Even basic training could be useful as it free up people to the front

    Those guys just being drafted would not have been at war for 10 years and those that have been probably be best used at the front moving down untrained Russians in their golf buggies



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    very interesting article (sorry I can’t post the non soft paywall version as it’s against rules)

    What if Putin wins?


    The strength of Nato lies not only in its military prowess but in its unwavering commitment to collective defence, enshrined in Article 5. Yet Article 5 merely compels members to contemplate a response. “The Parties agree that … if such an armed attack occurs, each of them … will take action as it deems necessary…” – that’s all that Article 5 says



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,727 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Very watery. Feeble response would lead to a third world war.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    Which is precisely the point, feeble responses is why this war keeps dragging on and escalating

    Edit:

    Post edited by zerosquared on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,815 ✭✭✭EltonJohn69


    the drip drips of help and long delays in decision is not great, all because they don’t want to upset putin…..



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,330 ✭✭✭RGARDINR


    Thanks that's informative and like you say probably be a while until they are there but will make a difference when they are.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,440 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard


    Let the Russians have it

    https://x.com/NOELreports/status/1796246872232690007

    All eyes on Kursk. Slava Ukraini.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,440 ✭✭✭✭TheValeyard




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,066 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    They should have been using the motor bikes from day one. The Red Army forget the main lesson front fighting their one time ally in the very same area in the 40s.

    The ground is too soft for too long and it's too open country.

    They learn. Slowly.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,618 ✭✭✭Padre_Pio


    Need an awful lot of motorbikes. We all know there's no one left to ride them back from the front lines.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,905 ✭✭✭TinyMuffin


    if only napoleon had had motorbikes for la grande armee.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,066 ✭✭✭✭Danzy




This discussion has been closed.
Advertisement