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Russia-Ukraine War

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,301 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Because bigger share of market make your product more valuable. Why do companies buy competitors when they can just enjoy that money instead of spending them buying competition.

    Wars are economy 101. The 4 regions captured are not eastern fringes of Ukraine but Ukraine powerhouse.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,301 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    I am quite aware of that this is no place for anyone who is not firmly pro Ukrainian. The question I have is how is that make me pro Russian? This idiotic reasoning is not uncommon as everyone who is not pro Israel and dare to call for end of Gaza conflict is immediately branded pro Hamas.

    Simple minds require simple solutions and all they offer is inability to accept that someone may not be interested in taking a side.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,301 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    And you rejected that claim. End of story.

    If you are not curious yourself it should end up there for you. I am not here to spoon fed you information you rejected even before you bothered to find out more about it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,733 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Saying peace at any cost to Ukraine (and you have said the regions captured by Russia were valuable) and not condeming Russian agression and expansion is plainly pro Russian.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,667 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    Because you're behaving as if Ukraine are in some way at fault for defending themselves from a nation attempting to taking their sovereignty. You've already said you don't care which way the war goes. If Russia wins this war, it will end with large-scale genocide as that's been their end goal since it started. Question for you, do you think Russia is committing genocide?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,675 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    If you witness a bully beating up another person, and describe that as two people fighting…

    That is plainly being pro-bully \ expressing a position favourable to the aggressor and doing a dis-service to the truth.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,301 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    I think you may have timeline a little mixed up but all in all you may want to try some writing.

    I do not like going in hypothetical scenarios as they tend to go crazy fast. But hey, in my opinion any war on island of Ireland involving NI and Republic may be called civil war and hey, NI can still be considered as being occupied by invaders.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,301 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    It is not. On the contrary Moldovans were rejecting unification attempts as they value their independence and want to join EU as independent state. Romanian push which started right after Moldova gained independence scared Russian minority and result was short but bloody conflict resulting in stalemate in Transdnistria.

    There is a barrage of claims and proclamations which started right after breakup of Soviet union and while it was kept at a bay until recently there is expectation that reunification can be pushed through more easily now with Sandu elected. Btw she holds both countries citizenship and quite few people think that if reunification move forward she may be more capable leader than any Bucharest can offer.

    There is whole different world out there if you want to get on subject starting with wiki page cataloguing every call for it and continuing with published scholar papers claiming how there is no difference between the two of them and how cool it would be if they would be together. It is slow process but it is there and gaining momentum. Ukraine conflict just accelerated it more. They even voted Romanian as official language and replaced every mention of Moldovan language in every official document constitution including as Romanian. Go figure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,534 ✭✭✭Virgil°


    Would you mind answering some of the questions posed to you there @patnor1011 ? Do you think the Russians committed genocide in Bucha? Do you think the stealing of children from the occupied territories and stripping them of their Ukrainian identity is a genocidal act by the Russians state?

    Maybe it would feel less like an echo chamber in here if you answered some of those questions. Instead of dodging them like a coward. Thanks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,301 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    I said the war should end and sooner it ends the better it will be.

    Peace at any cost and not condemning Russian agression is something you added in order to put a label on me exactly in check with "if you are not with us you must be against" reasoning.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,005 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    » Please kindly point me to where I called this a "mutual war between NATO and Russia" and where did I stated that "Ukraine should reward it's invader with land"?

    I didn't write that. You really need to read what's being written, I suggest reading it again.

    You are attempting to frame this as a mutual or "spat" war or "resources" war, so you can project this disengenuous anti-war stance to the whole thing. That "both sides" need to stop.

    Russia is invading Ukraine, the Ukrainians are defending themselves. Russia has no right or reason to invade. Ukraine has every right to defend itself. There's only one instigator. You're just lazily blaming both, which is obscene.

    Ukraine has the option of rewarding Putin's invasion with land, but they've learnt by bitter lesson, and we've learnt by bitter lesson, that appeasing Putin does nothing but encourage him. it creates more war.

    The only thing Putin responds to is strength. So if Ukraine do go to the table, if it's even available, if it's even legitimate, they can only do so from a position of strength, or else there will be only more war, more invasion. By Russia.

    Did Putin stop with Crimea? Did he stop with Donbas and Luhansk? If someone supports appeasing Putin, they support more war.

    Yet here you are indirectly accusing Ukrainians and people who support Ukraine of being war-mongers. A neutral nation that was attacked. The irony and BS of that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,301 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Right. Colorful examples and the truth, another attempt to categorize people again.

    I can assure you that if something like that happens I would act and I would not just stay there with phone in the hand taking video and talking about it.

    War is different and complex scenario which cant be downgraded or simplified with this bully example. If you feel so strongly about it you can go and join the cause. I know people who did and I listened to what they have to say afterwards. I would not repeat it here because none of you would understand. That is all I say about it and I still call for war, any war to end. The sooner it happens the better it will be.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,161 ✭✭✭zerosquared


    2014 is 22 years after the collapse of USSR and both Russian and Ukrainian independence

    My example not only stands but blows and T90 suborbital launched turret hole in your silly “civil war” thesis

    This is a colonial war of expansion in a classic imperial Russian fashion with a sprinkling of fascism borrowed directly from the third Reich and the worst aspects of communist propaganda and imagery thrown in



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 468 ✭✭8mv


    We can all agree that the war should end and the sooner the better. You certainly give the impression that you would prefer it to end with Ukraine capitulating to Russian agression - you have posted nothing that would suggest the opposite…



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,039 ✭✭✭scottser


    The only way it ends is with Russia's defeat. Europe is comitted to a Ukraine victory, so you might as well suck it up and pick a side.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,675 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    I pointed out an example of where "if you are not for, you are against" and you have no credible response, just an attempt at shifting the goalposts.

    War is different and complex. Why? Nope - not necessarily. This is argument by assertion, without foundation.

    "If you feel so strongly about it go and join the cause". A total cop out answer, by that standard, why don't you? You seem to feel strongly on the subject too. Why don't you go there, position yourself in no man's land and plead for peace? What do you think your life expectancy will be? Do you think "any of them" would "understand"? So you don't even live up to your own "advice". Self discrediting isn't it? Why are you calling for war to end here, when none of us on this thread are doing the fighting?

    Another "attempt to categorize people"? Then, what's "none of you would understand"? Again, easy to write lines like that in posts to try to score points, easy to forget to follow them yourself. Go back and re-read your own recent posts, and see how many times you categorized people.

    I have outlined the consequences of your position, and it is not peace, it is rewarding aggressors and rewarding warfare. Again, you had no credible response. Calling for a war to end on that basis is in reality just perpetuating the reasons for it, it is not a serious basis for peace, and it is not peace by any real definition.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,301 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    I dont think so. Remember when Russians were quite deep in Ukraine and as soon as negotiation started in Turkey whey withdrew? There was no single attempt at negotiating afterwards even recent proposed peace conference invited everyone but them. You cant negotiate end of war without warring parties present. While it was 2 regions then now there are 4 occupied and that certainly make negotiation for Ukraine harder.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,301 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    No, thank you. I am not sucking anything up and I am not picking side. I do not care which side win or lose as long as killing stop.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 35,675 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Implicitly, you have picked a side. Your position would result in rewarding the aggressor. Your position would result in rewarding Russia for atrocities such as Bucha. By refusing to engage with what Russia is actually doing in Ukraine, by refusing to recognise that Ukraine has the right to defend itself against such aggression, that is a pro-Russian position.

    You deny Ukraine the right to defend itself against Russian aggression, invasion and atrocity. That is not a position of peace. That is a charter for war mongering.

    And any stop to the killing would only be temporary, because you will have rewarded those culpable for killings. We have seen how Russia signs treaties, re-arms and attacks again.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,005 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    A reminder of what "peace" looks like on occupied Ukraine.

    image.png image.png image.png


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,301 ✭✭✭patnor1011


    Oh well, one has to pick their wars right?

    I will visit again in few months and we will be at gamechanger 30 and talking about another 1 or 2 occupied oblasts as it seems it is heading in that direction anyway. I wish it was different but what can I do?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,534 ✭✭✭Virgil°


    we will be at gamechanger 30 and talking about another 1 or 2 occupied oblasts as it seems it is heading in that direction anyway

    You could at least attempt to hide your arousal at the thought of it happening? Anyway the mask has completely slipped. You are pro Russian. End of story. No further dialogue needed.

    I wish it was different but what can I do?

    1. No you don't
    2. Donate to a Ukraine fund like United24 or The69thSniffingBrigade. Of course, you won't do this because that would upset your Russian mates.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,667 ✭✭✭eightieschewbaccy


    The fact you won't comment on if Russia are committing genocide is very much so picking a side...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,005 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    We all wish it was different.

    No one wants this invasion. We all want it to end. Putin isn't just attacking Ukraine, he's attacking Europe, we're a part of that.

    It's unreal to come across individuals who don't care how it ends, meaning they don't care who prevails. Reinforced by snide comments, as if there's something wrong with expressing hope or support in Ukraine prevailing.

    If Putin prevails, there'll only be more war. As a supposed "anti-war" person you may need to take some time to think about that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,733 ✭✭✭saabsaab


    Well 'peace at any cost' i.e. the sooner the better and not condemning Russian agression is plainly pro-Russian. How could it be taken otherwise?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,361 ✭✭✭Field east


    it must be the only war ever in the history of all wars - and go back as far as you want to- where UKr is the clear victim with ‘ both hands tied BEHIND its’s back’ and ‘ one leg tied up behind it’s back’. So this means that it cannot kick out with the free leg because if it does it will FALL. Imagine not being allowed to attack/ neutralise locations in Russia that is firing missiles at you with arnaments provided from outside sources. Putins bluff has been called re going nuclear. It is now clear that he is concentrating exclusively on using large numbers of soldiers - to overwhelm the smaller UKr numbers- along with bombing everything in sight



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,235 ✭✭✭Paddigol


    And there we have it. Smoke and mirrors, pretending to hold oneself out as a pacifist, when really its "I genuinely do not care how it ends". I'm not going to bother engaging with you on the issue anymore as you steadfastly refuse to acknowledge the reality of war, pathetically passing it off as "elaborate conclusions", and I'm just going to call your posts out for what they are - disingenuous. Stating that you just want peace, straight out saying that anyone who disagrees with you is a war hawk, yet refusing to accept that it can only come about one of two ways - Ukrainian capitulation or Russian withdrawal.

    That's me done with the 'sound of one hand clapping' discussion, and another poster to add to the ignore list.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,368 ✭✭✭paul71


    It is clear that the week or two of the absence of this thread, caused very serious withdrawal symptoms resulting in stream of nonsense from a particularly badly effected Russian propaganda victim.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,012 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    Ah, so you want Russia to head back across the border. Took a hell of a lot of posts by umpteen people to get that out of you.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,484 ✭✭✭circadian




This discussion has been closed.
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