Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

True but similar could be said for Munster and they squandered it.

Munster had most of the country supporting them for a period of time and were one of the biggest brands in world rugby. With the right facilities, talent identification, partnerships, and coaching they could have pretty easily built on their success.

Leinster didn't 'get away with it', they made the right bet on how to retain and develop their young players, starting even before the '10s.

At the same time, Munster made terrible bets like maintaining two training bases, splitting players, including academy, and coaches. Schools pathway should have also been huge in Munster, they again wasted their window for it.

Yep, I think where this academy negligence from the 2010s is most hurting Munster right now is in the front row where they have a seriously worrying absence of elite props and hookers. They’ve managed to produce quality players in other positions though- Shay McCarthy, Ben O’Connor, Gleeson, Gibbons, Edogbo Jr., Coughlan, Ruadhan Quinn will all turn into seasoned professionals IMO. From the previous crop you have Edogbo snr., Campbell, Ahern, Crowley, Flannery, Ben Healy, Hodnett, Kendellen, Casey -who have all proven themselves at the highest level. But think they’re behind on front row development.

thank you Oracle, and can you provide the same level of insight for all provinces?

except Leinster of course. they're perfect.

Post warned.

Far more blame being pointed to the IRFU on this debate around funding, but my question is about accountability. Both Munster and Ulster have fired coaches and its delivered very modest result. Have the fired any executives? Not that I know of.

I'd agree with this. For Munster in particular you need a strong AIL. And a strong Limerick. And Limerick rugby is not in a good place. Maybe the hurling success is biting the rugby?

Senior and Junior schools final this season was Pres-Christians. Senior Final last season was Pres-Christians. No Limerick schools even entered the Senior B competition, the Barry Cup, this season. Not good at all and not good for Munster in the long-term.

I can confirm with semi-regular contact with Ulster fans and their use of four-letter words and the middle finger emoji, that Petrie was absolutely loathed.

You read it here first folks. It's apparently possible to harvest a smattering of fairweather rugby fans and yield international-calibre rugby players, if you have the right leadership. Leadership that practices sorcery, perhaps.

fair enough but the point stands, fans find far more issue with the IRFU, central contracts, the media and Leinster demographic/schools advantage to wish away enduring underperformance than they do with how the provinces are run. Coaches get stick, suits rarely do. Both Ulster and Munster have had periods where they dominated Irish rugby consistently, the reasons they fell away are mostly homegrown. RBAI and Methodist were once as important to producing Ireland players as blackrock and Michaels are now. It’s not the IRFUs fault that the wheels came off. RBAI has produced more internationals and Lions than any other school on the island, 3 times+ as many as Blackrock. At a guess they’ve also produced more IRFU leaders too.

Michaels has around 600 kids, it's not a very big school. Gonzaga is even smaller and they've become a serious rugby outfit in the last few years only. Im not sure they've produced any pros but they've created a house style that's very successful. maybe they have way more resources than equivalent schools in Munster and Ulster to invest in rugby, Ive no idea.