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Certificate of Compliance on Completion - Is the builder needed to sign this?

  • 26-03-2024 12:40AM
    #1
    HonestKevin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36 ✭


    I am building a new house on a green field site. The house is now finished but i am on bad terms with the builder. Does anyone know if i need him to sign the certificate of completion? Or is it enough that my engineer signs it and then the surveyor comes out and values the house and signs off on it?

    According to the Tipperary County Council website:

    -------------

    What is a Certificate of Compliance on Completion?

    For work coming within the scope of S.I. 9 of 2014, a Certificate of Compliance on Completion must be lodged with the Building Control FAQs Authority and placed on the public register before the building may be opened, occupied or used.

    The Certificate must be signed by the Assigned Certifier and the Builder. It certifies that the building or works have been carried out in accordance with the Building Regulations.

    SOURCE: https://www.tipperarycoco.ie/building-control-faqs/what-certificate-compliance-completion%3F

    ------------



Comments

  • #2
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    Is your house being built under BCAR, or, at the outset, did you opt out of BACR?

    To know/get the answer to this, find out what type/form of commencement notice was submitted when construction started.



  • #3
    who what when
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 831 ✭✭✭who what when


    I assume since he is asking the question then they haven't opted out and it is a BCAR project.

    The answer is yes, the builder and assigned certifier must sign the CCC. Now i know it is possible to transfer the role of builder to yourself but that said i wouldn't do it as you would be letting the builder off the hook in terms of responsibility for the project.

    If it was me he wouldn't be given his final payment until he signed the cert.



  • #4
    HonestKevin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36 ✭HonestKevin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939929#Comment_121939929

    It is an opt-out of building regulations. That's what my engineer told me to sign at the start of the build and that's what i did.

    Basically the house is now complete and there is one last payment to go to the builder. However i have just discovered that the builder took a number of shortcuts during the build. I got a quantity surveyor out and the cost of rectifying these problems exceeds the amount of the last payment going to the builder. These shortcuts are mostly aesthetic, such as for example a smaller window was installed (by about 8 inches) than on the plans.

    So i was going to send the builder a solicitors letter saying i would not be paying the last payment due to the faults. I would then use the last payment to fix the faults and some i will just have to put up with, such as the smaller window.

    I was concerned though that if i did this the builder would get awkward and not sign off on the build and drag me through the legal process for a number of years and the building not getting signed off on as a result. I need the building signed off on to get the green mortgage. So it would cost me money.

    Can the builder hold things up like this for me and not sign off on the house? The engineer is willing to sign off on the house.



  • #5
    DOCARCH
    Moderators, Home & Garden Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 18,868 Mod ✭✭✭✭DOCARCH


    Short answer is no, with opt-out, no formal sign off required from builder.



  • #6
    HonestKevin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36 ✭HonestKevin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121939989#Comment_121939989

    It is an opt-out building regulations. Can i transfer the role of builder to myself now without asking the builders permission?

    I don't see what risk i'm taking. As i understand it, there is a 6 year limit on bringing a negligence case against a builder who has just built a new house for you. Therefore after 6 years, all the responsibility falls on myself anyway.



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  • #7
    Gumbo
    Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 42,182 Mod ✭✭✭✭Gumbo


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121940629#Comment_121940629

    With Opt Out, you do not get a certificate of compliance on completion from the LA.

    You’ll get the opinion on compliance from your engineer/architect only and the builder is not required for this UNLESS your architect/engineer is awaiting paperwork from the builder on materials/products that they used.



  • #8
    who what when
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 831 ✭✭✭who what when


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121947159#Comment_121947159

    Its a while since I've done an opt out but from memory i don't see why you need to change the role of builder. There is no CCC to be signed when opting out!

    Seems like someone is mis-informing you. Your Engineer should be the one advising you on all of this.



  • #9
    mickdw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,888 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    Opt out. No.cert to.lodge with council.

    Engineer will issue cert but I certainly look for lots of ancillary certs from trades and suppliers so in your case the builder would need to be pulling all that together.

    If you have valid concerns re the quality of the build, fair enough but raising an issue of a window being wrong size at this stage smells like you are looking for an excuse to not pay.

    In my experience, the time to look at a window being incorrect is at blockwork stage or a worst on fitment of the window.

    If all parties approved construction to move onwards past that stage, it is assumed it was acceptable.



  • #10
    HonestKevin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36 ✭HonestKevin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121951448#Comment_121951448

    Are you talking about things like a radon cert? Do i need to get that from the builder? The engineer is happy to sign off as is without any certs like that.

    I completely understand what you are saying about the window size. What happened with this build is that towards the end a structural problem arose on the garage door. That triggered a review of the house as a whole and the smaller window size was spotted as well as other defects. That is why we are making an issue of the window size now. The smaller window size seems to be due to bad workmanship/lack of supervision by the builder and i don't see why i should have to suffer the smaller window size due to the builders lack of supervision on the build.



  • #11
    mickdw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,888 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    You are grasping at straws with that one really.

    If you or your engineer didn't pick it up at the proper stage of the build, its either a very minor change or an equal lacking in inspection on your Engineer side.

    On an opt out dwelling, I look for selection of dockets relating to stone blocks and concrete together with Certs from those suppliers.

    Certs for hollowcore

    U value Certs for windows

    Certs for any special lintels

    Cert for design install and commissioning of heat recovery system

    Cert for design install and commissioning of air to water system

    Copy of electrical cert.

    Airtightness rest result.

    BER

    If Engineer is happy to do an opinion on compliance without any of that, that's fair enough. He is loading more risk on his own back.



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  • #12
    muffler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 46,868 ✭✭✭✭muffler


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121954013#Comment_121954013

    Out of curiosity what size was the planned window and what size is the fitted window? Also what room is the window in?



  • #13
    Dr Turk Turkelton
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,039 ✭✭✭Dr Turk Turkelton


    I'm starting to think the op's name is a complete misnomer.



  • #14
    HonestKevin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36 ✭HonestKevin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121955562#Comment_121955562

    Just out of curiosity, do i even need the engineer to sign off on the build? As the homeowner, can i sign off on it myself?

    I know i would be taking on any risks if there was a problem with the house afterwards, but i don't mind as i've checked the building thoroughly and i don't see any other major problems. Nothing expensive anyway.



  • #15
    mickdw
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,888 ✭✭✭✭mickdw


    In theory you don't have to have anyone signing off if you are not borrowing. Your engineer will however be listed as designer at the council.as part of the build stage commencement and considering you have engineer on board from start, it would be madness not to finish out the paperwork now as it will cost you alot to try to get a cert again if you wanted to sell or borrow against it etc.

    The only reason I could see for not getting the certs from the engineer is that he is not going to be paid. Add that to not wanting to pay the builder and its not painting a very nice picture.



  • #16
    HonestKevin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 36 ✭HonestKevin


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121957260#Comment_121957260

    Thanks for your input. The engineer is going to be paid, albeit reluctantly as he has admitted a certain level of failure on his part for not spotting the structural issue with the garage door. It was me that had to bring it to his attention.

    I have a mortgage so i guess that means i do need an engineer to sign off on it?

    I'm just worried that if the builder has money docked off the final payment, that he will create legal issues and this in some way could hamper my engineer from signing off. In other words, if there is a legal wrangle for 2 or 3 years, i'm worried the engineer might not sign off until the legal issue with the builder is put to bed.

    Would the engineer be ok signing off on the build even if there is a legal wrangle like this?



  • #17
    Mellor
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,377 ✭✭✭✭Mellor


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121956613#Comment_121956613

    Do you have the experience, qualification and insurance to sign off on it? The bank will expect that, it is there investment at this stage.

    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121958064#Comment_121958064

    who as engaged to supervise the build? If the engineer is not paid to be on site regularly, then the number of issues they can catch reduces



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