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Israel/Palestine Thread

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Comments

  • #33542
    Regina Gigantic Illness
    Posts: 577 ✭✭✭ Regina Gigantic Illness


    Hamas still rejects deal to release the hostages. Israel has no choice now but to go into Rafah and rescue the hostages.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?t=158s&v=qcnk_tMqcHA




  • #33543
    Regina Gigantic Illness
    Posts: 577 ✭✭✭ Regina Gigantic Illness


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121942164#Comment_121942164

    Think of if it this way , Israel can complete the job and remove Hamas over the next few months or spend eternity been terrorised by Hamas. Israel is a developed economy and it needs peace and security. It can't keep been dragged into wars by terrorists who have nothing better to be doing that to hate on Israel.



  • #33544
    Regina Gigantic Illness
    Posts: 577 ✭✭✭ Regina Gigantic Illness


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121942895#Comment_121942895

    It's amazing that there is no pressure on Hamas to step down. Isn't that very telling. Can't have Israel be a success in the region, too many vested interests to drag Israel down.



  • #33545
    Eibhir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭Eibhir


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943456#Comment_121943456

    Hamas control is like any dictatorial regime.

    Israel and success are words I wouldn't use together. Personally I don't equate genocides with success.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • #33546
    SeanW
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,831 ✭✭✭SeanW


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943473#Comment_121943473

    The fact that Israel still exists is a sign of success, despite the overwhelming odds they've faced over the decades. And it depends on how you define Israeli success; not only have they managed to survive but they're world leaders in research and innovation in the sciences and technologies. And it's not for no reason IMHO that despite being only 0.2% of the worlds' population, Jewish people win an absurd proportion of Nobel prizes.

    Where Israel may indeed be a failure is in dealing with is in the propaganda war. Clearly, their enemies are winning there, but they're getting a lot of help from useful innocents, as we've seen.

    https://u24.gov.ua/
    Join NAFO today:

    Help us in helping Ukraine.



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  • #33547
    Eibhir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭Eibhir


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943386#Comment_121943386

    After 6 months of this 'approach' they haven't managed to release these hostages.

    Hostages are usually released through negotiation. Israel blanket bombing will only result in the death of hostages, captors and innocent people. The definition of madness is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting differing results.

    This scale of warfare\genocide can't be continued by Israel, and producing no result other than alienating global opinion and causing genocide. At best Israel are the most inept army in the world. And that's being very kind.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • #33548
    Eibhir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭Eibhir


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943628#Comment_121943628

    The fact it exists is due to massive military aid from the strongest military nation in the world.

    The resaon it exists was a commendable idea of giving the Jewish people a homeland. But if that involves displacing existing populations, which it did, it's totally wrong. 1948 to the present has been one land grab after another.

    The reason many Irish people support Palestine is we are all to aware of the consequences of plantation. Even 400 years later.

    Jewish people does not equate to the State of Israel, this has been pointed out to you for 6 months. People and races should not be judged by nobel prizes won. An impoverished downtrodden people won't have the educational systems and wealth to win as many awards.



  • #33549
    SeanW
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 9,831 ✭✭✭SeanW


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943658#Comment_121943658

    They've had aid, there's no arguing that, but they've had to defend themselves with their own hands. Your point about Jewish people and the State of Israel is belied by the fact that nearly half the worlds Jews live in Israel. Given that there are only about 15 or 16 million of them in the world and so many live in Israel, a threat to the State of Israel is a significant threat to the Jewish people overall IMO. As to your point about "downtrodden people won't have the educational systems and wealth to win as many awards." you should be aware that Jewish people have not exactly had an easy ride through history, to put it mildly. Yet still they exist, though they are vulnerable.

    And I really don't understand why so many Westerners who should know better are focusing so much hate on such a small country surrounded by so many that want them all dead.

    https://u24.gov.ua/
    Join NAFO today:

    Help us in helping Ukraine.



  • #33550
    Frank Grimes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,798 ✭✭✭Frank Grimes


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943628#Comment_121943628

    The irony of the fact that you continuously spout the "useful idiots" line while simultaneously uncritically regurgitating Israeli propaganda is probably completely and utterly lost on you. But no doubt "the left" are still reeling from these edgy takes of yours.



  • #33551
    Odhinn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,903 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943698#Comment_121943698

    ...because they're colonising land outside their borders. Very simple.



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  • #33552
    Eibhir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭Eibhir


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943698#Comment_121943698

    'The State of Isreal' have a think. When the 'British Empire' sent the Black and Tans and Auxilaries to Ireland the 50 million odd British people, at the time, weren't held responsible for the burning of Cork and all the atrocities. It was the British government. I, and others here, have no problem with Jewish people. Just the 'State of Israel' and how it has evolved. And in particular this current Israeli government regime.

    If I lived in the 40s I'd be anti the Nazi regieme. Would I be anti the German race, absolutely not. Horrible regiemes have come to power in many countries.

    And it has to be said again, the Holocaust does not give you free reign to commit war crimes.

    The Jewish people had a horrible time, pogroms throughout history. However, they tended to do well in banking and finance and retain a level of wealth, especially in the US from the nineteenth century on. People like Robert Oppenheimer are an example of descendants of Jewish people who had little, and did very well through hard work in the US. But achievements like these by Jewish people don't in any way legitimise how the 'State of Israel' behaves today.

    At the end of the day violence begets violence.



  • #33553
    Eibhir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭Eibhir


    When you get the right people in power progress can be made. I was 17 in 1993 at the time of the Camp David accords etc. There was great hope. It's desperate to see the retrogression. No US leadership and equally bad in the area itself.

    Common sense on both sides should see the sense of a properly defined 2 nation state. With heavy UN involvement if needs be.

    But the past 6 months, and the continuing slide before that have probably set the region back 100 years. Until some of the huge amount of bitterness created can dissipate.



  • #33554
    Eibhir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭Eibhir


    Growing up in the 80s and almost an atrocity a day in NI, we became immune to the horror. Things aren't perfect at the moment but boy have we come so far since then. Imagine going back to that.



  • #33555
    Eibhir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭Eibhir


    I'm logging off here now. I don't post much here. For the reason it's just too heavy! I don't know how ye contribute so much daily. From one extreme to the other.... I'll make a post or 2 in the Fair City thread!!



  • #33556
    Odhinn
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,903 ✭✭✭Odhinn


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943435#Comment_121943435

    You seem to have missed my last post to you (No. 34102) Here it is down below - I've put your statements in Bold.

    Israel dosnt have colonies, the idea is for the west bank and Gaza to be self governing, as long as they are not committing a campaign of terrorism against Israel.

    Israel dosn't want war, it's the hateful ideology of Hamas that creates war. Israel is paying with it's own blood to make Gaza better and to stop the terror attacks against Israel.

    Israel most certainly has colonies, located in the West Bank, Golan and Arab East Jerusalem. They are often referred to as "settlements". You might do a bit of reading before commenting further..

    https://www.btselem.org/topic/settlements

    "Israel dosn't want war, it's the hateful ideology of Hamas that creates war."

    Hamas was created in 1987. Israel has been occupying the various territories since 1967.

    You seem to have missunderstood the following question, or at least misread it -

    "Israel reflects the qualities we support in the west."

    Could you give me an example of a western European state that acts in the same manner as Israel, with specific reference to the colonies in the occupied territories and the treatment of the Palestinian population in same.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • #33557
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,325 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943804#Comment_121943804


    CA wouldn't be as adversarial as a thread on Fair City



  • #33558
    Eibhir
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,710 ✭✭✭Eibhir


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943835#Comment_121943835

    🤣🤣



  • #33559
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,325 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    Independent expert outlines her belief on why Israel has already committed genocide.


    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3XrwNGWF108




  • #33560
    Regina Gigantic Illness
    Posts: 577 ✭✭✭ Regina Gigantic Illness


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943828#Comment_121943828

    Israel has continuously been the homeland of the Jewish people since the Bronze Age. They are indigenous to the land therefore they can't colonize themselves.

    Palestinian leaders have rejected Israel's offer of a 2 state solution in the past and instead installed a hateful terrorist regime Hamas (backed by Iran) who wants Israel wiped off the face off the earth.

    https://m.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=81&v=UPly72zsWeI&embeds_referring_euri=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.ajc.org%2F&source_ve_path=Mjg2NjY&feature=emb_logo




  • #33561
    Regina Gigantic Illness
    Posts: 577 ✭✭✭ Regina Gigantic Illness


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943839#Comment_121943839

    Shes basing her stats of the Hamas health ministry, a terrorist organisation, therefore the numbers she provides are not reliable.

    Here is an article that shows how Hamas phony stats are always 70 percent women and children.

    https://www.google.com/amp/s/nypost.com/2024/03/19/opinion/hamas-is-almost-certainly-lying-about-the-number-of-deaths-in-gaza/amp/



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  • #33562
    Wolf359f
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,825 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943989#Comment_121943989

    When 70% of the population are women and children and Israel is indiscriminately bombing, statically speaking 70% of the dead would be women and children. Before you say it, you can't make surgical strikes with a 2000lb bomb dropped on a city.

    There's a small number who still latch on to the 'fake' figures, maybe in the hope that if there's only a handful of dead civilians, it's not a genocide. Then again even at 20k women and children dead, others don't think that's too high a figure/price.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • #33563
    Sudden Valley
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,636 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121944049#Comment_121944049

    Some posters are constantly critical of the official death statistics but then they never come up with the figures they believe are more realistic. Additionally the same posters will never say what true civilian casualty figure would be a red line that if Israel crossed that would make them stop supporting Israels operation. They don't care about civilian casualties it's just a distraction tactic.



  • #33564
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943386#Comment_121943386

    Even when the hostages make it out, Israel just kills the hostages in cold blood.

    The idea that they have no choice but to commit genocide doesn't wash when they are murdering their own.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • #33565
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943628#Comment_121943628

    your link doesn't delineate laureates by religion or ethnicity. Will you cease with the racebaiting?

    I see Rabin listed there however - the man Bibi held a mock funeral for. and more:

    https://www.timesofisrael.com/labor-chief-michaeli-rabin-was-assassinated-with-netanyahus-cooperation/

    Maybe not the connection you were hoping to make, ah well.



  • #33566
    Donald Trump
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,325 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943989#Comment_121943989


    You should sent her whatever evidence you have that will change her mind.

    What do you have? Tweets from professional liars?


    Over 50% of the population there are children. If you think that half of the remaining are women and half are men, then if you randomly picked 100 people from Gaza you'd expect 75% of them to be women and children. Stats may not be your strong point

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • #33567
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121943989#Comment_121943989

    That tired old line:

    By early-December, Israel’s security advisors claimed the killing of “7,000 terrorists” in a stage of the campaign when less than 5,000 adult males in total had been identified among the casualties, thus implying that all adult males killed were “terrorists”.66 This is indicative of an intent to indiscriminately target members of the protected group, assimilating them to active fighter status by default. 

    https://www.ohchr.org/sites/default/files/documents/hrbodies/hrcouncil/sessions-regular/session55/advance-versions/a-hrc-55-73-auv.pdf

    Kinda weird that Israel's own count is higher than the actual count.

    image.png


    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • #33568
    Regina Gigantic Illness
    Posts: 577 ✭✭✭ Regina Gigantic Illness


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121944103#Comment_121944103

    Israel has claimed to have killed 12000 terrorists. That doesn't tie in with Hamas stats. But that's my point, there is propaganda in war from both sides. The true figure is unknown and will never be known hence the phrase the first casualty of war is truth. All these emotive responses based off stats that are not reliable is laughable.

    What we do know is that Israel minimises civilian casualties by utilising a warning system to warn civilians before hand of any incoming projectiles. And we also know that Hamas uses civilian facilities and residences to hideout in and then turn them into military facilities. Therefore creating the unwanted destruction in residential areas. Hamas then in turn, utilises that destruction for its own propaganda warfare against Israel. Which has been very successfully for them abroad and for putting pressure on Israel internationally.

    But Israel knows all this already, it knows the game, it won't cave into international pressure, it's going into Rafah to finish off Hamas for once and for all. That might be upsetting to people on here, but in 10 years time, you will understand that Israel did the right thing.



  • #33569
    REDBULL68
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 326 ✭✭REDBULL68


    Israel said at the start of the so called war Hamas have tunnels everywhere, even into Egypt, no Hamas left while the real people die ,when the ceasefire comes they will come back from Egypt and emerge as hero's, Israel knows this, but this is a land grab ,oil off palestine, USA already have the drilling contracts in the bag,big war is big money .



  • #33570
    Overheal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121944142#Comment_121944142

    Even if we assert that only 1/3rd of those killed in the stats actually were the UN report makes it painstakingly clear all conditions for genocide are being met…

    In one para you go from “both sides propagandize” to regurgitating Israeli propaganda… their actions in this war, especially those actions we have definitive proof of hardly demonstrate a minimization of casualties, rather we see them sniping livestock, children, civilians, even killing their own hostages ffs

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


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  • #33571
    Regina Gigantic Illness
    Posts: 577 ✭✭✭ Regina Gigantic Illness


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121944146#Comment_121944146

    The point is Hamas won't be in power, what's left of them will be living in tunnels under eqypt. When gazans experience life free of Hamas they won't be going back to them. Gazans will have their own government and free elections. Gazas borders will remain intact. Isreal doesn't want to govern Gaza and it doesn't want their land. All this fear mongering brought about by Hamas propaganda, is unwarranted.



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