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Cold Case Review of Sophie Tuscan du Plantier murder to proceed. **Threadbans in OP**

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  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,972 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    But there is less evidence against anyone else.

    Thre is no indication that they spent much time investigating anyone else.

    That's what I don't get, people disregarding the Bailey evidence for the sake of something that has no evidence at all.

    There isn't evidence against Bailey that is of any prosecutorial value so therefore there is no evidence against him.

    And don't blame the lack of evidence on anyone else on a missing page from a book.

    You have no idea what that page did or didn't contain.

    erm, that's the problem. Evidence has been destroyed. We now have no idea why other suspects were discounted as you would expect to see in a professional investigation.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    A morning encounter at the gate

    Sophie strolling down axe in hand seems unlikely

    Not impossible of course



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,378 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    As you say, all speculation, with nothing to support it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    Is that the best ya can come up with in response?

    Any ideas of your own

    Sure that's all any of us are doing here speculating



  • Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭Zola1000


    This post again is exactly accurate and it's amazing some posters keep forgetting Garda corruption in this case. No matter what is said and done no DNA if IB is yet at scene. Some have suggested here he would know if left hair and skin or anything at scene..not bad going in middle of night after having good load of drinks earlier in night. I would have thought ones who have drinks certainly can not maintain the level of proper thinking or proper state of mind but maybe IB can.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,038 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Thre is no indication that they spent much time investigating anyone else.

    This is the big falicy in the thinking around here.

    Just because there are no other suspects posters think no time was spent investigating other people.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,106 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Well just remember you have invited speculation about other suspects :)

    About Bailey, my instinct is that if he was the killer, he would have left some sort of a "to be opened in my death" type confession... think of the notoriety from that... maybe wrapped in some piece of poetry. The 'writer' \ showman in him, that would appeal to him.

    I find Alfie's reaction to the discovery of the body very curious... even accounting for the shock of it. As CrimeGuy summarises:

    Alfie Lyons had a bandaged hand when interviewed by police after the murder. He and Shirley found Sophie's body in the lane. Alfie runs back up to Sophie's cottage to knock on the door. Why? Was this because he wanted to reassure himself that the body was not hers? Or to warn her not to come out? How close did he get to the body? Could Alfie be the source of the smear of Sophie's blood on the outside of the door?

    https://www.crimeguy.com/p/the-unusual-suspects

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 544 ✭✭✭GNWoodd


    Why is the fire of any significance ? If he was burning clothes hat were contaminated why not do it indoors ? And if the intention was to get rid of them why leave evidence of there having been a fire ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭Zola1000


    Well it's all we can think. Sure what have AGS left us with. Load of nonsense one suspect one angle. Ah we had 50 suspects on day one. They all had good alibis though so we closed them off..one guy acting bit strange though..ah sure we will stick with him. There is nothing here for other posters only the DPP files which was based on the very poor evidence supplied by AGS. So where we go from here.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    Ya

    I think posters are watching too much whodunit programs

    10 people in the house 1 dead , all the other 9 are suspects



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  • Registered Users Posts: 15,038 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    They all had good alibis though so we closed them off

    Exactly , what else would you expect them to do?



  • Registered Users Posts: 155 ✭✭Zola1000


    Well I'm not sure. Do you have answer of what alibis were?

    Would that be evidence the guards might have I wonder.

    Sure Marie Farrell changes her statement few times and Jules had get her solicitor to certify that's not what she said in one of her statements..

    I'd like to see some of other statements..they might be worth gate somewhere maybe



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,106 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Bailey had a 'good' alibi too until the Guards tried to use a fake witness and got heavy handed with Jules and appear to have altered witness statements.

    Karl Heinz Wolney for example, lived alone, had no actual alibi for that overnight into morning.

    Alfie had no real alibi either, if Shirley didn't hear the murder, she can't exactly account for Alfie's whereabouts.

    Bruno's alibi in France isn't as "good" as it appears, as posters have pointed out on the thread. Hard for the Guards to probe French angle further than that.

    What's the alibi for Marie Farrell and her husband?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    I think you're confused how investigations work ,ya think anyone in Schull with no alibi is a suspect


    And what do U mean bailey had a good alibi?

    Bailey was confirmed gone from the bed for the nite

    How is that a good alibi ?



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,378 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    I think the lack of evidence connecting anyone to the crime scene will make it very difficult, if not impossible, to identify whoever was responsible for Sophie's death.

    Unless the unidentified tyre tracks, shoe print and DNA on Sophie's boot can be identified and either eliminated or linked to the killer they would introduce a level of reasonable doubt that would make a successful prosecution difficult.

    Similarly with the unidentified speeding car and the unidentified person mentioned by the Galway travel agent. There are too many loose ends and too little solid evidence to reconstruct events with any level of confidence.

    I think the bread left out uncovered with the bread knife; Sophie having eaten two to three hours before her death; the house lights being off all make it more likely that she was killed in the morning sometime after daybreak / breakfast. Whatever reason Sophie had to be at the gate, I think is connected to why she was killed.



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,106 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Why? Do you think anyone in Schull with no alibi is a suspect?

    Bailey had a good alibi ... until... read the post back again.

    A 'good' alibi on the surface may not survive closer inspection is the point. How closely did the Guards actually look at this reported 50+ list of suspects, we don't know. Much of the confusion with regard to this aspect of the case is due to the Guards unsafe and incompetent (or worse) conduct, such as logs being deliberately tampered with and witness statements 'lost'.

    And the lack of a 'good' alibi doesn't mean that individual did it, after all, the murder could hardly have been carried out by all the names I listed could it?

    Does Alfie have a 'good' alibi? If Shirley supposedly didn't hear the murder next door, how can she actually account for Alfie's whereabouts?

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    You think she went down to the gate

    Did she bring the axe

    Or do you believe the axe is unconnected



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 38,972 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Is there possible evidence that the axe was used on Sophie (more a question for @bjsc)



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,106 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Following this thread I am coming across more and more pointers to a morning murder. As well as the ones you note - The vintage hot water bottle placed on the ground carefully rather than in the bed does not suggest a surprise 3am wakeup call.

    Also no alcohol detected in system but glass of wine drunk at 5pm at Ungerers and decent chance also a glass of wine consumed at the cottage later based on wine glasses seen there.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,378 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    Sophie was found by the gate so she got there somehow.

    Unless the axe is found and shown to have some evidential value it is no more than a distraction.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    Not adding much there

    Do ya believe there was any encounter at the house or she simply left house and went to gate where first encounter took place

    The axe is relevant to discussion if it was taken



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,378 ✭✭✭FishOnABike


    I agree, the more closely one looks at it, the more seems to point to events happening around or after daybreak / breakfast.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    Any possible theories for morning killing

    I asked before don't think I got anything in reply



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,166 ✭✭✭Wompa1


    My instinct is, if the French court didn't find him guilty, he would have left something behind but because it found him guilty, he would not give them the validation. He was a malignant narcissist. It is why he kept coming back to put himself in the frame. I would bet that is why he confessed while drunk.



  • Registered Users Posts: 4,463 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    "In my personal opinion, based on my experience and on the advice of former colleagues who specialise in blood pattern analysis.."

    Thanks for that Bridget. You've decided to challenge in interviews in the Irish media and on here the post mortem report of Professor John Harbison, a man with decades of experience in performing autopsies and autopsy reports. Professor Harbison went to the time of writing up a report on Ms. Du Plantier's murder, to be examined and cross examined.

    You might now have the decency to name these colleagues of yours, and better still post their advice and evidence in written form so it can also be examined and cross examined.

    You might also tell us how many autopsies you've performed yourself?

    In your own time ;)



  • Registered Users Posts: 28,106 ✭✭✭✭odyssey06


    Interesting angle re: validation.

    I think he had an alcohol blackout for part of that night and may have thought he did it at one point. Read that he went to hypnotist. That accounts for some of his later phrasings such as: I know that I didnt do it.

    I think some of his involvement in this case was trying to figure out if he was involved.

    "To follow knowledge like a sinking star..." (Tennyson's Ulysses)



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,296 ✭✭✭tomhammer..


    He was some man , an alcohol blackout and typing up an article all in the same night



  • Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭bjsc




  • Registered Users Posts: 4,463 ✭✭✭tobefrank321


    Once more, thanks for that Bridget. For the record, this was in response to me asking you if you think she might have been still alive when the first garda arrived, and you said you believed so based on looking at pictures of the body and post mortem file.

    Did Professor John Harbison, a man with decades of experience who performed hundreds of autopsies mention any such possibility?

    Can you remind us again of your qualifications to read or interpret autopsy reports? Or to determine (27 years later) that someone might still be alive after sustaining massive head injuries?

    Medical qualifications per chance? Having looked at your linkedin profile it says your third level qualification is in Modern European History and French.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 280 ✭✭bjsc


    Just wondering how many times you've "expressed an opinion". I'll go back and count if you give me a couple of days.



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