Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Will be interesting to see the Hamas reaction to this given how they shield themselves using innocent civilians. If they try to stop the people from leaving, that would truly be a genocide on their part. If they let the people leave, then they are trapped in an enclosed area and really at the mercy of indiscriminate bombing. The situation for them is truly bleak.

The only rational decision for Hamas is to release the hostages and work out a surrender deal. Unfortunately we're not dealing with rational people.

The mask slips.

"I don't support Hamas, but I am for them killing innocent hostages".

You keep repeating this over and over and over, playing this as the poor Israel card as if what has happened over the course of its existence was not inevitable. So let me try again as you completely ignored my last post on this.

It was the Zionists choice to try and set up a state in lands already occupied. They knew the consequences they would face, and just in case there was any doubt, the Crane-King commission of 1920 laid it out in plain writing, it was a bad idea that would lead to bloodshed and they would be better of looking for somewhere else to settle. The Zionists were always fully aware that the creation of any state would be soaked in bloodshed, but they were willing to pay that price. Foolishly the British backed them in their project, then realised belatedly it was going to be a disaster as predicted, passed the buck to the UN who solidified an already bad situation with their partition plan. It was inevitable that Israel would be attacked as the British and subsequently UN completely ignored the wishes ot the majority of the population. You make your bed and you lie in it, the Zionists always knew the risks so they can hardly play the poor little victim now.

You said it would make hamas a party to genocide. That suggests there is another party ie. Israel. At least you admit it will be genocide I suppose. Hopefully you don't support it when it happens then.

It's a war crime to bomb civilians that are being used as human shields. So there's two options here.

If Hamas are using civilians as human shields then Israel is committing war crimes every-time they try to bomb Hamas.

If Hamas aren't using civilians as human shields, then Israel is just bombing civilians which is a war crime.

So, are Israel committing war crimes or are Israel committing war crimes?

True, Donald said it. Nice slipperiness though. I suggest you let him answer the question put to him.

Are you seriously comparing Israel to Russia? Let's see how that stacks up. Russia has spent all of history attacking it's neighbours. Israel has spent all of its history being attacked by its neighbours. Israel comprises less than 1% of the MENA region. Russia consists of 1/3 of Europe and all of North Asia. Last I checked, neither Ukraine nor any of the other countries Russia attacked had ever had a policy of destroying Russia and killing all Russian people. And there are concessions Russia can make for guaranteed peace.

Israel was created as a state by attacking its neighbours and over the years has sometimes attacked its neighbours to initiate wars, just like Russia. Russia has been invaded a number of times so has not always been attacking its neighbours.

I dont think Israel is like Russia but your reading of israels history is very one-sided. I hate to read what your reading of the USA's history is

That and their opinion TM seemed to have even memory-holed the several Israel-Gaza ears since 2005 and before Oct 7. Or the rapes of Palestinian children. Or the murders. Or the settlements between then and there. Or the other myriad deliberate provocations - and suitcases full of money.

Israels reaction is disproportionate. If you think that killing 10 thousand kids is proportionate i do wonder what you would consider disproportionate.

I think you are assigning too much intelligence to Hamas. I expect they didn't think the Western World would allow Israel to kill tens of thousands of civilians in Gaza or Israel would have the stomach to do that. But here we are.

Strange admission that there is a genocide going on and a tolerance - a “stomach” for carrying it out.

There is no invisible line. You either have a limit to how many civilians you are willing to be killed in the pursuit of hamas or you don't.

You think they are still being proportionate so when do you think they will be disproportionate? Never?

“That would truly be a genocide”

As opposed to what? Actually doing it in reality like the terrorists in the Israel defense forces and their masters in the “parliament”?

It needs to be brought forcibly home to both citizens of Israel and Russia that they live in states widely regarded as pariahs.

That's one of the vectors for change.