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Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,704 ✭✭✭Cordell


    It's not a genocide because it doesn't meet its definition by UN as "acts committed with intent to destroy, in whole or in part, a national, ethnical, racial or religious group". It is war, not genocide. You can't just call genocide when you hate one party engaged in a war.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,560 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    It definitely fits the description. Has to be a genocide so.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,627 ✭✭✭circadian


    Starving a population, removing them en masse from most of the area, flattening everything in sight including schools, hospitals and refugee camps. Openly allowing settlers to move into said destroyed areas with various members of government openly backing the national/ethnic/religious groups piss off somewhere else.


    Pretty sure that meets the definition you just posted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,704 ✭✭✭Cordell


    All those are things that happen in wars, and not defining genocide. War is death and destruction, and no matter how bad the war is it doesn't mean it's genocide.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,627 ✭✭✭circadian


    "War is death and destruction" doesn't take away from the facts.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,536 ✭✭✭NewClareman


    It is clear that there is an orchestrated campaign that is consistent, not just on Boards.ie, but across all social media channels. Every discussion that refers to what's happening in Gaza is stifled, ever so politely, by turning back to what happened on October 7th. The extent of this campaign became clear when I read  multiple articles in reputable publications including Foreign Policy  and Politico.

    "The Israeli airstrikes have created a level of urban destruction more severe than in Aleppo in Syria or Mariupol in Ukraine, destroying or damaging close to one-third of buildings in Gaza. As the extraordinary scale of civilian killings and destruction of homes in Gaza became visible on social media ... Israel’s information warfare strategy focused on deflecting attention from it. "To this end, Israel has capitalized on polarization in Europe and the United States by pushing a simple narrative: Criticizing the war is anti-Semitic and protesting the mass killing of Palestinians is to do the bidding of Hamas." How Israel Mastered Information Warfare in Gaza, foreignpolicy.com, 11/3/24.

    See also, Israel advocacy groups outspend pro-Palestinian groups on social media, Politico.com, 12/6/23



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,980 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    That may be the truth in social media in general though I don't think you see much of that on Boards, I dont think this platform is big enough to attract that attention. We just have a few fervent Israeli supporters here.

    You do see constant claims of Anti-Semitism here, even some outlandish claims stating that Ireland is the most anti-Semitic country outside of the Middle East or the Catholic Church controls us, but that weak narrative doesnt work here, and is ignored.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,537 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Evidence? Especially for the claim that there is an "orchestrated campaign that is consistent, not just on Boards.ie" ...

    https://u24.gov.ua/
    Join NAFO today:

    Help us in helping Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,537 ✭✭✭SeanW


    The poster specifically referenced boards.ie. BTW your second link is paywalled.

    https://u24.gov.ua/
    Join NAFO today:

    Help us in helping Ukraine.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,683 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    I guess asking if Palestinians are human beings is a gotcha question now

    https://www.reddit.com/r/PublicFreakout/s/XACkr8pknw



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,560 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Found this very interesting -

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=d0gECjlpXF8



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    And yet, with all its resources and so-called-experts who have devoted their lives to the field of law, the ICJ held that it was "plausible" that Israel had already committed genocide in Gaza months ago.

    Why they just didn't defer to the boards.ie experts is beyond me. It would have saved them a lot of embarrassment. They must be mortified that they didn't even know the definition



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,704 ✭✭✭Cordell


    No there was no such statement from ICJ. They didn't even ask for a cease fire, and that's coming from a judge panel that's presumed to be heavily biased against Israel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    You are dead right. I was only reading a fake decision from an untrustworthy antisemitic site - that being the ICJ site itself. They obviously posted some lies, pretending that the ICJ had posted it.


    In the Court’s view, the facts and circumstances mentioned above are sufficient to conclude that at least some of the rights claimed by South Africa and for which it is seeking protection are plausible. This is the case with respect to the right of the Palestinians in Gaza to be protected from acts of genocide and related prohibited acts identified in Article III, and the right of South Africa to seek Israel’s compliance with the latter’s obligations under the Convention.


    I see you are getting in your excuse of "heavily biased" good and early too.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,044 ✭✭✭jmreire



    Lets just wait and see

    Let's just wait and see Weepsie, OK? For sure the entire Muslim world (admittedly, that's not the entire world, but still) is angry and offended by what Israel has done and is doing to Palestinians. There will be major backlash by them to that, and it has started already with the Houthi's attacking shipping in the Red Sea, sinking one and killing 3 sailors. This ship was carrying 41'000 ton of Fertiliser and Oil, and is causing an ecological disaster in the Red Sea. This is just the beginning of the Islamic reaction, but as well we have the universal reaction of all normal and civilized people calling for all kinds of sanctions etc, on Israel. So wait and see who is right, shall we? Oh, and another thing, kindly stop dictating what I may or not post, OK? I don't tell you what you can (or cannot) post, moderator or not.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,044 ✭✭✭jmreire


    ...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,560 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    Another murder after they gave the Israelis the coordinates ?? Hamas in the flour bags excuse forthcoming.

    "Today's attack on one of the very few remaining UNRWA distribution centres in the Gaza Strip comes as food supplies are running out, hunger is widespread and, in some areas, turning into famine," said UNRWA chief Philippe Lazzarini.

    He also said the UN had shared coordinates of the facility with the Israeli army on Tuesday.

    An UNRWA spokeswoman said the facility was used "to distribute much-needed food and other lifesaving items to displaced people in southern Gaza".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    It has been clear for a good while now that one of Israel's deliberate strategies is to starve the Palestinians to death.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,704 ✭✭✭Cordell


    They are merely affirming that Palestinians have the right to be protected from genocide, and NOT claiming that Israel is committing genocide or that the accusation is plausible. You neet to stop lying.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,759 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Do you remember when Assad was bombing hospitals. His excuse was similiar to that of the IDF. The Russians have similiar excuses in Ukraine. You would not pass off their crimes as just the horrors of war. You would lay the blame where it lay, but you can't with Israel because they can do no wrong from your perspective. The ICJ in not throwing the case against Israel out must not be as certain as you are that it's not genocide.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,567 ✭✭✭Wolf359f


    It's a court case. South Africa took a case against Israel and presented evidence it felt constituted genocide. Israel presented evidence to defend the claim.

    The court rules that SA's case was plausible and it will be heard at a later date. It's the equivalent of pre trial hearings, if the judges feel it's a made up case with insufficient evidence etc... the case is dismissed.

    The ICJ never did and never would make a ruling that Israel have committed genocide, they need a full trial for that. The judges found the case SA presented before the court plausible. If the judges didn't find SA's claim of Israel committing genocide plausible the case would have been kicked out.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,044 ✭✭✭jmreire


    I''ll repeat my views and reasoning Weepsi. Here goes:- Since 2005, when Hamas took control of Gaza, and started attacking Israel with missiles etc, and of course, with Israel responding basically tit for tat (except that Israel tended to return them on a ratio of 2 (or more) to 1, it became so common place, that it barely got a mention in the media. Until Oct 7, when it became the most reported event in the world for a while. BINGO, exactly what Hamas wanted and planned for, massive revulsion targetted at Israel, Muslim countries united in their anger and hatred of Israel, cutting economic ties,( and for sure, giving Jews a hard time to say the least of it!) Other non-Islamic Country's denouncing Israel, and threatening sanctions etc. And Weepsie, all of this is happening, and it will get worse. We have already seen the mass protests in European Cities, Wait until the Jihadis call for mass protests in Islamic Country's, demanding that their governments and Muslims in the west take "action" against not only Israel, but their "supporters" in the west too. And Weepsi,in my opinion it will get worse. Much worse for Israel (and the west too!)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Now now now. You are the one lying. Can you not read it? I gave you the link.

    Why do you think that such supposed experts made such a basic error? When a regular board.ie poster such as yourself can immediately know they are wrong? Never mind legal training - some people know things are wrong because of .... feelings??????


    And why did the ICJ lie and put up a decision on their own ICJ website, as if to pretend that the ICJ put up a decision on their own ICJ website? Was it just to trick regular people like me? Not everyone is as lucky to have people like yourself available to point out that the decision doesn't say what it actually does say.

    I think where the confusion lies is that the decision is written using words, and people who can read, will read those words, and mistakenly conclude that they say what they say, when in reality, if you do it the correct way and don't read them, you will find out that they don't say what they do say.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,537 ✭✭✭SeanW


    Except that Israel is home to nearly half of the worlds Jews, is the worlds only Jewish state, and has been attacked by its neighbours continuously throughout its history.

    Anyone who calls for the sanctioning of Israel is siding with its enemies. Iran, Hamas, PIJ, the Houthis, Hezbollah, Islamic State etc.

    https://u24.gov.ua/
    Join NAFO today:

    Help us in helping Ukraine.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    You don't get to make up the rules SeanW.

    Although you may or may not be able to process it in you own mind, it is perfectly possible to simultaneously have the opinion that maybe Israel shouldn't be committing genocide against innocent women and kids in Gaza, while also having the opinion that ISIS probably weren't a great bunch of lads.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 790 ✭✭✭Fuascailteoir


    The EU have said today that Israel is using starvation as a weapon against civilians. Surely that deserves sanctions.


    The Israelis are going to move 1.4 million people into 'islands' within Gaza. Sounds suspiciously like the concentration of 'human animals' within camps. Where have we seen this sort of thing before



  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 13,430 Mod ✭✭✭✭iamstop


    They were caught red handed razing fields of crops during the limited cease fire.



  • Moderators, Music Moderators Posts: 13,430 Mod ✭✭✭✭iamstop


    The biggest problem here jmreire is that in your view this was started by Hamas in 2005. Whereas anyone who wants to look into this even a little bit will soon find out that Israel were building illegal settlements in 1967.

    Did you know that it was also 1967 that Israel effectively aparthied'ed TF out of the water supply there too? Image.

    Making it illegal to harvest the water falling from the sky so you and your family can just live with some dignity.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,337 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    How come nobody is whinging about all the sanctions against Russia. Blatant discrimination against followers of the Russian Orthodox Church. Given that the population mainly follows that religion and almost 90% of its followers live there.



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