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Referendum on Gender Equality

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,066 ✭✭✭gym_imposter


    Whatever about SF , the Citizens assessmbly is probably made up primarily of Soc Dem voters , card carrying woke progressives

    The Soc Dems would be more likely to extend the remit of the CA given the opportunity



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,235 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,235 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators Posts: 11,174 Mod ✭✭✭✭Jim2007


    Democracy is not a very lofty concept nor something one gets to define and get all upset when it turns out that it does not work that way, it is just the set of rules a nation agrees to be governed by.

    And in this respect, constitutional referenda and the citizens assembly have little or nothing to do with policy setting in Ireland! It is about setting strategy not policy. Decisions about policy and the execution of that policy happens at a general election and if you want a say in policy setting then you need to going a party and get involved in their policy setting process, create your own party or run as an independent.

    And yes a lot of people do get involved in policy setting, except not in the way you seem to think, they actually do it in the manner it is supposed be done - through local, county and national party gatherings and followed by knocking on doors during elections. Have you ever been involved in party politics and a general election?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,457 ✭✭✭Sheep breeder


    Over on the farming forum gk5000 on March referendum thread explains about how he was selected and involved in the citizens assembly and is an eye opener.



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  • Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I'm sure some had issues with it, but the vast majority voted no because they couldn't make head nor tail of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,566 ✭✭✭Economics101


    To-day's Irish Times letters page is a great read: really sticks it to the NGOs, one particular I.T. journalist, and the opposition parties. Also calls out the lazy "far right" labelling of anyone who disagrees with right-on "progressive" social views.




  • Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Always wondered about this who are the NGO have you got an example of one?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,596 ✭✭✭leath_dub




  • Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    No evidenced basted it's what I got from family and friends not one knew what it was about exactly or they had contradicting opinions on what it was about.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 513 ✭✭✭getoutadodge


    That way the legal eagles get their share too. All on the taxpayers.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,991 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    Yes but there was no "better explaining" that would have made it clearer. It was just a bad proposal, with ambiguous wording and no discernable practical positive effects. That's the bit the "Yes" side seem unwilling to accept.

    I get the feeling they still think if they'd just been able to have a few more million Euro to explain it "better" (or somehow prevent the "No" side from having access to the public to avoid them" confusing" the electorate with "bad messaging", it would all have been grand.

    Well they may not be wrong about the effects of being able to prevent the opposing opinions from getting out there. But that's not democracy.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    Well your predictions iirc of 51/49 in favour of the 'family' and 49/51 loss of the 'care' were a product of your imagination.

    Not that mine were correct at 65/35 Nos but a deal closer.

    Just which of us were more in touch with neighbours and family intentions??

    Going to need to be serious questions asked of polling companies now. Are they worth the paper they are written on and/or should be quite disregarded as nothing other than news fluff and spin.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,226 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    No they have already done so much damage around the country to towns, villages and even inner city communities that people are not going to forget.

    Watch areas that were dependent on tourism hit hard over the next year.

    They will not come anywhere near housing people, and it will be even worse optics when foreigners are housed ahead of Irish people.

    GP access, hospital waiting lists will not improve, nursing home places won't be there.

    We probably still wont have a new childrens hospital.

    And any economic decline will bring cutbacks.

    Fuel prices are going up today.

    They can issue all the sound bytes under the sun, but I think a lot of people have copped on and now distrust and even detest the lot of them.

    The ones that are trying to jump ship and distance themselves from this fiasco are detested as much as the clowns that instigated it.


    One thing I am wondering is if certain people are waiting for Locals/Euros to see if they will reenter the political scene and form a party.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,235 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    OK


    But that has nothing to do with the point I was making

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,076 ✭✭✭blackvalley


    From speaking to some people I feel that the no no vote was not a matter of not understanding the issue. it was people saying to the government and opposition “ would ye ever fook off and fix the real issues in this country and forget this virtue signaling fluff “ .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,447 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    The article by Jennifer Bray on why the referendums were lost was absolutely delusional. In her 5 reasons she failed to understand why it was defeated - the proposed changes simply were not wanted. She also failed to recognise that No was in part motivated by a deep dissatisfaction with the political status quo - and some of that dissatisfaction is around liberal social policy.

    This is absolutely basic stuff for what a political writer should understand.



  • Posts: 12,694 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    So who are the NGO who pushed this? I think that's an important point.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,991 ✭✭✭✭volchitsa


    NWCI for one.

    Mind you, they don't know what a woman is, so no wonder they want to remove the word from the constitution.

    "If a woman cannot stand in a public space and say, without fear of consequences, that men cannot be women, then women have no rights at all." Helen Joyce



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,226 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    The chair is government appointed and a third of them are party selected.

    The whole selection process was called into question in 2018 when it turned out 7 replacements joining in January 2018 had to be removed the following month when it emerged they were mates of a Red C employee making selections.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,674 ✭✭✭✭hotmail.com


    No idea what you mean. Give your opinion or contradict others. That's how it works here. Or else say nothing.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 625 ✭✭✭Coolcormack1979


    Thank god some cork lad won an award so Pravda/rte can try to ignore the spanking the ffg shinners and the rest took on Friday



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭Augme


    There's a huge amount of people who didn't understand it. All you need to do is read this thread to see that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,447 ✭✭✭MrMusician18



    The list of NGO's that were part of the Yes Yes campaign. It looks like Yes Yes was shepherded by NWCI, or at least the Yes Yes website belongs to them.


    Action for Choice

    Care Alliance

    Communications Workers Union

    Community Work Ireland

    Doras Buí parents alone resource centre

    EAPN

    Family Carers Ireland

    Family Resource Centre National Forum

    From Lads to Dads

    Fórsa

    Irish Congress of Trade Unions

    Irish Women Lawyers Association

    ISSU

    Mens Development Network

    One Family

    Outhouse

    Oxfam

    LGBT Ireland

    NISIG

    NWC

    SIPTU

    Spunout

    TENI

    Treoir

    Unite the Union

    USI

    Women’s Aid

    Social Care Ireland

    SPARK

    The Community Platform



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,447 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    I agree. Anyone that backed a yes vote clearly didn't understand what they were voting for.

    Thankfully the rest of the electorate saw sense to confined this virtue signalling nonsense to the dustbin where it belongs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,975 ✭✭✭robbiezero


    I agree the thing is arse covering nonsense, but is it not 99 randomers and a chair?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,629 ✭✭✭Augme


    No, I'm talking about people like yourself who didn't understand the term durable relationship.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,593 ✭✭✭✭pjohnson


    Tbf it seems a lot of the carers ones pivoted to a no near the end when there was fùck all clarification provided about what would change and if it would even improve their situations.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    No, your view is part of a counter propaganda campaign to deflect blame. And must be contradicted.

    Vast majority of posters on this thread well understood that the proposals, partic in the 'family vote' were vague & reckless. Just because you put your own spin on what these meant, doesn't mean at all that others were confused. If they didn't understand the proposal, it's because the consequences were incapable of being understood.



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