Sole trader and ltd company

I was class these two as under masonry work and not invoice separately.

Why am i asking this question. Ive been trading as a stonemason/multi trader for a few years laborer only. I have always been below the vat threshold but im now thinking if i set up a ltd company for building extensions, garages and maybe houses etc.. then would my bed and butter trade have to be charging vat aswell. If i was to be vat registered for my stonework, ill loose out on work because all my stonework has been for private clients, and they always use the non vat registered mason. I need this work to keep the eggs and bacon on the table!

Ideally id like to registered as separate trades. The vat threshold is holding me back from earning a good living but as the poster above said, this might fall under the anti avoidance legislation. for example 37.5(using previous threshold rate). Say 5k in expenses is 35k, income tax, prsi, usc doesnt leave me with much in this current climate. If i start having to charge vat, ill loose out on any work im getting.

I dont want to stay as i am. Its holding me back from earning more tbh or if i register for vat on this part of my business, ill loose out on work. I already have a good reputation and i am in demand however i know once i cross the threshold for vat and have to register and charge it, the extra few quid the clients need to pay for vat they will look elsewhere and i wont get the work. Esp in this climate with building costs high. I wouldnt do the "cash jobs" not declaring what i worked for either because its against the law.

I do understand that if i do become ltd aswell that ill be doing less stonework, but i still need it to fall back on if the other work isnt paying as much or dont get as much work as i need to cover myself. Ideally i would like to be just running the ltd business making more money than i would on the stone.

I will be discussing this with my accountant soon. Just looking as much research for now before i eventually do decide on what to do.

Yes I understand this but can someone register multiple trades. In today's market we have lots of multi traders doing a few different trades. Is it possible to register as 4 different trades and earn 30k each trade and still be non vat registered or is it because they all fall under construction, you can't register so many.

An accountant and plasterer I can see they are different but a block layer and stone Mason would be similar.

I don't understand you about the expected to register if you earn 5k each month for 3months. Say one earned 5k for 5 or 6 months then nothing the rest of the year, surely he wasn't expected to register for vat then.

If the work is good enough theyll pay it. My work is excellent i can assure you this but experience tells me from other vat registered tradesmen and talking to clients, they'll find an equally good non vat registered tradesman to do the job cheaper. Esp in these times of ridiculously high building and living costs. Alot of clients ive dealt with over the years would need counselling if they broke into an extra fiver. Adding another 13.5% or 23% to there costs would put them in a mental institution haha. Jokes aside thou, i have worked on projects where clients have been spending millions on there homes to others spending hundreds. They all want it cheaper!

I will in time but theres no harm in getting the basics of it for now. I agree, its very complicated but once its explained to me (a few times haha) ill get to gripes with it.

Ive read this 5 times and still dont understand it. Even if an accountant explained all what you said above, id still be no the wiser.

Have is it possible to differentiate all 3 above you mention. Are you sure youve explained it correctly.

I get that if i supply labor its a reduced rate.

I get the 2/3rds rule is both labor and materials as 13.5%, if over 2/3rds then its 23%

I get that if supplying just materials then its 23%

What you wrote above is supplying labor and materials in each example. Can you even explain all 3 in invoice examples. Id be able to understand this abit better tbh.

On the first example. Blocks cost me 150e and labor 1000e . Invoice for 1150 + 13.5% which is now total 1305.25e. But is this not the client paying double the vat. If the blocks cost me 150e, i paid 23% to the supplier which was 34.5e . The blocks cost me 115.5e ex vat. But if my total for blocks was 150inc vat, im then passing this onto the client in the final invoice then adding another 13.5% ontop of it so they are now paying vat on vat.

Second example is the same, paying vat on vat. Also, because the supply of materials is over the 2/3rds of the overall invoice, my labor now jumps to 23% aswell.

In your examples i guess thats just passing on the vat to the client but what about if i add profit to the materials. How is the new invoices calculated then.

On the first example. Blocks cost me 150e and labor 1000e . Invoice for 1150 + 13.5% which is now total 1305.25e. But is this not the client paying double the vat. If the blocks cost me 150e, i paid 23% to the supplier which was 34.5e . The blocks cost me 115.5e ex vat. But if my total for blocks was 150inc vat, im then passing this onto the client in the final invoice then adding another 13.5% ontop of it so they are now paying vat on vat.

Is it not suppose to be me charging 13.5% on the ex vat price for the blocks and charging 13.5% on my labor. So the total im supposed to charge the client 113.5 for the blocks plus 1135 labor . Total 1248.50euro . My output was 148.5e and input was 23 i then pay revenue 125.50e vat.

Hoping someone could clear this up for me :)

was this for me or @Taxes

I was just going over your numbers again. why is it you divide 150 by 1.23. Is 23% of 150 not 34.50€ which leaves 115.50€ . The head gasket is blowing steam again trying to work that out haha