Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

No I'm saying the protests are pretty irrelevant to the situation in Gaza, i couldnt give a rats what they have on their placards. Protests or even the ICJ won't stop Israel doing anything only the US.

I'm more concerned about civilians being killed, hostages being released and Hamas being removed. I'm also concerned that the civilian deaths will cause another terrorist organisation to Spring up after this operation.

Not kill 20k civilians. Not continue to use methods that are resulting in such large civilian casualties. Not kill 6k kids and think that peace will be possible after.

Here's my suggestion: assassinate the leaders of hamas or perhaps allow civilians to leave gaza provide them safe haven in Israel before bombing the place.

What so you support? kill 20k civilians, kill 6k kids, build support for the next terrorist group there, not allow civilians to leave?

How long would you have given Israel to implement your displacement suggestion before they started bombing? How do you prevent Hamas from infiltrating with the Gazans moving somewhere (Israel, Egypt,...)

Because I think if you work it through, you'd be talking months before Israel could begin the offense to get the hostages back. Should the Israeli people wait months? Why should Hamas let hostages go while the Gazans leave Gaza? They can strut and preen online showing how much tougher than Israel, and give their crazed associates like the Houthis time to organize for an eventual Israeli attack.

As we've seen in the past weeks, it takes awhile and a great deal of planning (and luck) to blithely assassinate anyone, certainly Hamas buried in Lebanon or Qatar.

We dont know how successful exactly the hostage recovery operation will be until the end of the operation but it is a fact that they successfully released about 100 at the end of November and none since. The breakdown of negotiations since that ceasefire ended has made it very unlikely that the hostages will survive this conflict.

Do I think it would have been worthwhile to wait to bomb Gaza. Yes of course if it resulted in a much reduced civilian death total. The gazans will be looking for revenge for their casualties for years to come. Hamas destroyed with a much reduced civilian casualty rate would be a win for everyone.

Should the Israeli people wait months for what? Revenge?

And is that time worth civilian lives? There's no need to kill Hamas immediately. They're boxed in and surrounded by larger forces than they have been at any time. Israel could take time. they could formulate a plan. They could bide their time and go after leaders when the opportunity arises. They could start negotiating/planning with moderates what a post hamas gaza looks like. Israel has shown throughout it's history that it's willing to bide it's time and go after it's enemies. Israel didn't need to bomb start bombing the city as fast as they did. They bombed the city because they wanted to. They started immediately because they wanted to.

"Should the Israeli people wait months for what? Revenge?"

Israel acted to get the hostages back. Should they have waited? What would've happened to the hostages then?

They negotiated got a hundred back before the ceasefire broke down. Since that broke down and they have gone back to bombing gaza they have got none back so not a successful strategy (so far)

Nonsense.

I am the one that brings it up from time to time and have explained why each time. Still no one has offered any satisfactory explanation as to why no one on these marches protests Hamas. I note you haven’t opined on that either.

Besides which it wouldn’t be very effective as a deflection tactic by me given you can post whatever you want when you want to…

Israel won't allow them to leave and Egypt won't allow themselves be complicit with ethnic cleansing. There's also the very real possibility if it did happen, Israel won't allow them back into Gaza.

Israel could have easily set up a tent city outside of Gaza (on Israeli land) to provide a safe space, to provide humanitarian and medical aid to all women and children, but choose not to. Hamas were defeated in northern Gaza, Israel could have allowed people (women and children) move back, not that there's much to go back to, but it should be a safer space than the south (provided Israel allow aid in unhindered)

Yes, and it took some bombing to get Hamas to the table. Not like they volunteered or came willingly.

Well, we'll have to wait then once the final tally's done, because you can be certain Hamas isn't going to willingly provide that data.

Nice strawman though.

You're certain Hamas are out of Northern Gaza? Because apparently they're back, like rats returning to their nests.

And, as much as it'd delight you to get this data (lots of compassion for the poor dead innocent hostages I see), the IDF are kind of busy. Take a number, the insistence on the "IDF must confirm my suspicions now!" that you see on this thread is laughable. They're ducking bullets and making sure rockets don't get through, plus mixing it up some with the likes of Hezbollah.

The IDF said only 2 days ago they have finished their intensive phase of their ground offensive in Northern Gaza. Certainly seems like they can be collecting evidence of war crimes (civilians and hostages executed etc...)

I made the statement the IDF have been confirmed to have killed more Israeli hostages and civilians within Gaza and Israel than Hamas has (since Oct 7th) That was in relation to someone stating the IDF were not under imminent threat and could have easily assessed and planned for an offensive rather than jumping right in (something echoed by Biden about not being consumed by rage and making the same mistakes as the US did in the aftermath of 9/11)

You stated Israel acted to get the hostages back. Should they have waited? What would've happened to the hostages then?

I simple stated that those hostages Israel killed would be still alive. Even your statement goes against the general consensus (even among the hostages families) that the hostage's are not the top priority for Israel.

Netanyahu needed a war to stay in power anyway. That's why he ignored the tip-off.