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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭Mr Tickle


    Honestly it's his reliability that we could potentially use at the moment. Everyone after Keenan at this stage is playing their 2nd or 3rd choice position.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,384 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    It seems to me that Farrell selects a captain to suit the way he wants to keep the environment in the camp. Grumpy Johnny replaced by Grumpy Peter perhaps. Despite the cranky exterior the players seem to appreciate them within the camp.

    I'm not sure if Peter would be certain to be a starter in this 6 Nations but for the fact he has been made captain now. It seems that happens quite a lot though, coaches select captains first, and then stick with them, any drop in performance compared to the next best player is outweighed by what the captain brings to the team and the environment.

    Same went for Best and Sexton really. Well past their prime when finishing but perhaps kept on more for their captaining skills than their performances on the pitch.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,467 ✭✭✭almostover


    It's a fairly straightforward decision. We've lost our talisman and captain in Sexton. POM is the defacto leader of the pack and naming him captain keeps an element of leadership continuity for the 6N. It's up to the other 22 players to step up to the leadership plate and take over from POM. He's unlikely to be captain for next year's 6N so this is a transition plan. Someone needs to take the bull by the horns and show they're ready to take over.

    I can't see POM playing much more than 50 mins in any game and not at all v Italy. Ryan Baird will get plenty of scope to prove he's the future at no. 6. If he doesn't take his chance that's on him, not POM.

    POM has already 'ticked the box' of being Ireland captain. 10 times if I'm not mistaken. Plus he captained the Lions in 2 test matches. His leadership credentials are as good as any out there. What will catch him eventually is his aging body and ability to operate at the highest level. Lots of competition for the 6 jersey but POMs captaincy is the right decision for this 6N.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 413 ✭✭roverjoyce


    What not start fresh ahead of a 4 year and give captaincy experience to new players rather than repeat the failings of the past which has produced failure at every world cup

    BOD

    Rory Best

    Sexton

    POM

    All players who were captains past their prime which hinders development behind them



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,154 ✭✭✭✭Neil3030


    Pretty sure POM and/or Sexton had the Netflix crew thrown out of the changing room last year.

    Even if it wasn't; can you think of anyone else in the squad who would dare to do that?

    If you can, he'll be the captain when POM retires.

    Problem is, I can't think of anyone who comes close.... maybe Ryan.... maybe some day Crowley....



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 332 ✭✭Billy_the_Kid
    Master


    Id like to have seen Baird start at 6, he is flying at the moment. Disappointing to see POM made captain really, it seems a perfect time now to bring in younger players...especially since Andy Farrell will not be coaching Ireland for next years 6 nations.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,940 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    I don't see the downside to including Zebo. I'd prefer him filling in for Keenan than Larmour or Frawley.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 44,834 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    2 of those players retired as the best players available in their positions, BOD and Sexton, and are generally accepted as world class.

    So "hindered the development" of what was coming behind is a bit of a ridiculous statement when what was coming behind was nowhere near good enough to oust them from their position.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,467 ✭✭✭almostover


    Captaincy is earned, not given out for trials. POM is hardly past his prime. First game back for Munster last weekend, away in Toulon. Leads the team to a vital BP victory. If we had more on field leadership v Bayonne and Exeter we may have won both of those too. Snatched defeat from the jaws of victory as we looked leaderless in the last quarter of both games. POM isn't going to tear it up for the 6N. But if he can glue the team together, be workmanlike in his performances and shore up our disastrous linout post WC he'll have earned the captaincy.

    Who would you have picked as captain? Not many obvious choices in my mind.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,467 ✭✭✭almostover


    Baird will get plenty of opportunity to show he's the long term future at no. 6. I'm a big fan of his. He's great in the lineout, a big plus with POM nearing the end. And he's more athletic with ball in hand. Baird will start v Italy and maybe even Wales. And get 20 mins plus in every other game. If he performs, he'll take the no.6 jersey. Simple as.

    Right now this Irish team in transition needs continuity of leadership in the short term. POM provides that.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 413 ✭✭roverjoyce


    Ringrose, Sheehan, Doris, Keenan

    Maybe one of them could bring something fresh/different rather than staying with the past in a short term role

    Giving them a chance could have even led them to being a favorite for the Lions captain as looking at the other captains it is only Jamie George who is an option for that

    Could that bring them to another level?

    We might never find out now



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 4,384 ✭✭✭Jump_In_Jack


    I like Zebo, but think he's past it at this stage. I hope he continues to play well for Munster, but I don't see the benefit in handing him any caps now at this stage. Shane Daly would be a good shout though, terrific defender and decent pace and clever player, could be an asset for Ireland yet.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,349 ✭✭✭✭Foxtrol


    Congrats to POM, very well deserved, and happy for him as a person. Hopefully it goes better for him than his Lions run in the role.

    To me it is the wrong choice and another example of AF falling for sentimentality and probably fear to the detriment of the team. I don't see the value to the team in giving him the role.

    From a PR perspective, what I noted as a concern a few months ago is already happening on Twitter - the captaincy is being weaponised as a stick to beat the IRFU. The captaincy will be even more of a poisoned chalice post POM if all parties can't come to an agreement and POM end up playing abroad and loses the captaincy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 27,231 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Delighted for POM, his doubters have to wait for another day.

    From a Munster perspective happy with who's included but would have liked to see Hodnett somewhere.

    Prendergast is probably the unluckiest of those not included.

    Outhalf is an area of concern but we knew that once Joey wasn't part of the RWC.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,209 ✭✭✭Mr Tickle


    Calling him "past his prime" is daft. The year running up to the World Cup has been one of his best veins of form in his career, and at the tournament he was one of our best performers. He's played two games since, due to getting injured in one, and in the other he played well and lead the team to a badly needed and impressive win.

    I'd agree he's on the last couple of years of his career, but I haven't seen anything to say that he doesn't deserve his place in the team. If anything I think VDF might need to hit some of his higher levels again to keep Baird out of the back row.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,887 ✭✭✭snotboogie


    50% of the under 30’s in that squad either went to Blackrock or Michael’s. An astonishingly narrow player base.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,739 ✭✭✭leakyboots


    Love how Baird is the "generational talent" and the fella that has captained the Lions isn't.

    POM is the generational talent, Baird is all potential. Looks to have bags of it mind.

    Hodnett and especially Prendergast unlucky to miss out



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 138 ✭✭Leslie Purkiss


    He was nonexistent vs. NZ. He doesn’t have the physical attributes to live with a top team in a big test. It will be the same again in two weeks.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,887 ✭✭✭snotboogie




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 332 ✭✭Billy_the_Kid
    Master


    Hopefully so but by naming POM as captain suggests to me Baird will not get the game time you outlined. Like Schmidt, Farrell seems to discard current form in favour of past glories. This has hurt Ireland badly in the past.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,759 ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    This has been the argument against him for years. He's repeatedly proven it wrong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22 Leeinnnnnnster


    Delighted for POM. A man who never took a backwards step for Ireland. Makes perfect sense to have him as a bridging Captain.

    Very upset to see how quickly the “Brave and the Faithful” abandoned Coombes though



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 138 ✭✭Leslie Purkiss


    VDF is there for the taking. No talk of him becoming Leinster or Ireland captain, which is telling. He seems to lack a strong mentality.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22 Leeinnnnnnster


    Nothing says lacking a strong mentality like being named WPOTY and claiming the starting jersey in possibly the most competitive position in Ireland.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,540 ✭✭✭ersatz


    Take nothing from POM's career and he's been written off for 3 years by plenty of people but each season he has come in and made massive contributions for Ireland. I've no problem with him in the team and Baird will come out of this 6N with plenty more caps but making Peter captain is missing a trick here. For me Sexton was never a great captain, he didn't need the arm band to be an inspiration and drive standards in the dressing room but his temperament was never effective on the filed as captain for me. Now Peter is in as a stop gap as he is highly unlikely to be a fixture for the next 3 seasons. I'd much prefer if Farrell had used this season to at least establish a new long term captain even while he went for continuity in the squad.



  • Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You're just putting words into people's mouths now. I actually searched, you are the first person to mention the word 'generational' in here today. We're just debating the merits of picking a 34 year old as captain, considering the depth and competition for his position, nobody is even bashing POM here. Why invent it?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,248 ✭✭✭lawrencesummers


    The idea of a long term captain is a terrible one.

    You pick a captain for a campaign, like the 6 nations and then you pick again for the summer tour and again for the Autumn.

    They may well be the same person and they may not, but you dont pick a captain now and tell him he is in charge for the world cup.

    James Ryan could be dropped for Beirne and Mccarthy, Ringrose could be dropped for Henshaw & Aki. POM might be gone to France by the Summer.

    Its not a long term job, you just might be lucky to do it for a long term.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,686 ✭✭✭50HX


    Sexton & POM had been club captains for a considerable period of time, as a munster fan I find it strange we haven't appointed a replacement captain as I assume this would have been dropped to the management team pre world cup

    Here's a mad suggestion....maybe nobody outside of the above mentioned have shown the qualities that Farrell wants in his captain, Ryan had it previously but hasn't cemented it...doubt he'll go back to him now

    Farrell would have POM in the team& squad regardless of captaincy purely for continuity considering the retirements & injury losses so all this talk of Baird etc not getting a shot doesn't stack up imo



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,467 ✭✭✭almostover


    We will find out, one of those players is likely to be captain in the next year or 2. They need to show that they have the leadership skills first before the honour will be bestowed upon them.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,467 ✭✭✭almostover


    POM hasn't been playing a whole pile more than 55 mins for Ireland with the last 12 months. Don't think him being captain will change that. I'd place a large wager that Ryan Baird will start v Italy if he's fit.



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