Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

I stated my position on the tunnels way back, when all the rage was its just Israeli propaganda, look at this, look at that. The Israelis claim that Hamas had their headquarters directly under the Hospital, and showing a motorbike as proof, which was quickly debunked as Israeli propaganda. As well as was every other Israeli "Proof" of Hamas occupation. My position back then was wait and see, and since then I have been proved right. Pictures have emerged of tunnels of very advanced design and manufacture. And proved beyond a doubt that Hamas ran their organization and operations from the tunnels. They publicly announced that the tunnels were built by Hamas for protection of Hamas, and they had no responsibility for Civilians, which was the responsibility of the administration. They forgot to mention that they (Hamas) had stolen all the funds that were to be used for civilian administration, medical, social welfare etc. and used it to build the tunnels and purchase armaments. So much for protecting Palestinians. But now since the IDF chased them out of the tunnels (ongoing process) and they had to move overground, and of course exposed to IDF military so yes, they are now heavily merged with civilians. As for the Palestinian justification for Oct 7th. the buildup of resentment against Israel for all the occupation wrongs over the years, which resulted in and is being used as justification for the events of 7th Oct. There can be no justification for the horrors perpetrated by Hamas on that day. And make no mistake, Hamas knew full well what they were unleashing on Palestinians with that attack. And believe me Tayto, the repercussions of Oct 7th, like the ripples in a pool of water, will reverberate around the world. This story is only in the baby stages yet. It may ae been born in Palestine, but it will travel the world.

Ah ffs, why these comparisons with WW2. There was no smart bombs, laser and GPS guided bombs/missiles and shells etc.... It did have a Holocaust, 2 nukes being dropped, mass firebomb attacks on civilian cities but despite all that, civilian casualties amounted to 57% of all deaths, while in Gaza it's 77%

No wonder people think the IDF is targeting civilians.

What about the West Bank?

Are you clapping yourself on the back here? No one disputed Hamas has an extensive tunnel network. What was in dispute was whether they had a command center under the Al Shifa Hospital. I don't think the evidence presented for that was convincing. Ehud Olmert gave an interview where he stated the main operational center for Hamas maybe in Khan Yunis. He also stated the top leadership is likely hiding out there in tunnels . It wouldn't surprise me if tunnels running from the North to the very south of the strip are discovered in the months to come. We may also hear about leading figures being cornered in certain tunnels.

Ah the poster who said that the Gardai strip prisoners on the street is mixed up again and can't read properly. It happened in Israel and is now happening in Gaza. Terrorist attacks from two sets of terrorists. And yes all terrorist attacks are wrong.

No. Hamas are a terrorist organisation.

I wondered how much further Israel has to go to wipe out all of Hamas in Gaza.

I have a vague recollection of a report stating there were about 30,000 Hamas combatants. I saw today that IDF stated that 8,000 had been killed. So presumably bout 22,000 to go?

By combatants, I mean trained and equipped personnel - not those who only politically/ideologically support Hamas.

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I really don't care how Israel treats Hamas. What I don't like or agree with is how they treat ordinary Palestinians. It's as if being Palestinian is the same as Hamas. Its wrong and unlawful imo.

You could be right about the repercussions effecting other areas as Hezbollah seem to have stepped up their attacks but I can't see it rippling around the world.

"So to me, the dilemma is a simple one - you're either with them, or you're with the people who want to wipe them out."

To me, the dilemma is also simple one - you either support the wholesale murder of innocent civilians or you don't.

Nacho, you may want to refresh your memory about what was posted about the tunnels back to just after 7th of Oct, and when the IDF began their attack on Gaza.

And I revert to my original opinion on the tunnels ie: Wait and see, I'm sure that there's plenty of tales yet to emerge when the saga finally ends. And for some of the tunnels, especially the flooded ones, it could well be a long time before that story is written.

But do you think the right way to get rid of tunnels do you support bombing form the sky with the associated civilian casualties? For someone who a while back was adamant they were neutral you sure seem to confine your criticisms to one side of this long running conflict.

I was replying to your post about Isreal bombing Palestinians in areas that the IDF had told them were safe to go to, and then they were bombed, I mentioned one possible explanation as to why Israel would deliberately bomb an area that they had said was safe, was because the IDF had driven Hamas out of the tunnels, and they had mixed with the Palestinian population in the safe areas, and thus, the IDF bombed them. And very unfortunate for the Palestinian civilians who were sheltering there. As for the reverberations around the world Tayto, yes, I think that will happen on a personal level for sure especially anywhere you have Muslims coming into contact Israeli's or perceived Israeli supporters, this can and will happen. Even worse, if it will broaden into a far wider conflict, Country V Country, and no one knows where this could end up. It's not for nothing that the US has sent a huge battle group to the region. Maybe Biden knows something we don't know?

Revenge or terrorizing......you think that the bombing of British Citys would be forgotten, even in 4 years? I doubt it very much. Not so many, if any, I guess from that time, back in the 1940-45's. But I remember my Parents who were in London during the bombing still talking about it in the late 80's / 90's. So I'm pretty sure that if they could still remember it years later, so could the British people remember it just 4 years later. So, you can take your pick, Terrorizing or Revenge? Or the third option, both? Thats the one I'd be going for.

Yeah whatabout.