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So UFOs aren't a theory anymore - but we still don't know what they are

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    #1262
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121531103#Comment_121531103

    Forensic psychologists are credible, which is why they work with criminal investigation and the criminal justice system, the analysis is objective and final opinions are left entirely up the viewer.

    Posting whacky responses/videos don't dispel the glaring red flags nor make them go away.



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    #1263
    celtic_oz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭celtic_oz


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121531174#Comment_121531174

    Except this evaluation is not going to be used in any criminal investigation or in the justice system

    Unless of course you would accept the same sort of evidence that supports a UFO experience as being fact ?



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    #1264
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121531196#Comment_121531196

    It's not evidence of an "alien spacecraft", it's simply the view of an expert on the credibility of someone doing an interview

    So to sum up:

    1. Grusch hasn't provided any evidence of his claims
    2. It's possible he's lying




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    #1265
    celtic_oz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭celtic_oz


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121531295#Comment_121531295

    I thought not.

    Grusch hasn't provided any evidence of his claims

    It's possible he's lying

    So nothing new here. Thanks for the whacky video it was entertaining at least.



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    #1266
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121531307#Comment_121531307

    It is new. I suggested before that Grusch was simply gullible, believing hearsay with no corroboration and then reproducing it. Now it's possible he is lying on top of that.

    It's one thing to naively be passing on stories, it's another to be lying to the world.



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    #1267
    celtic_oz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭celtic_oz


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121531340#Comment_121531340

    Gruschs senate deposition was given under oath with grave penalties for lying.

    Its nice that you've just realized its possible he was lying. Kudos!

    He apparently is going to release an op-ed ( not sure where ) expousing some first hand knowledge soon.

    https://youtu.be/PJkffULI5Yg?si=xG-w509EiBBGQry_&t=33


    Top tip : He might be lying in the op-ed also, though he also might be telling the truth.

    It is out there y'no - the truth.



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    #1268
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    But even him telling the truth is in reality just him repeating the lies or imagination of other people. At no point in the chain is there any evidence of anything. Just people repeating a story someone else told them, which they heard from someone else, who heard a rumour from their mate up the pub.



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    #1269
    celtic_oz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭celtic_oz


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121531558#Comment_121531558

    Interesting way of describing the inner workings of the secret service.

    Are you saying that if he had said "I have first hand knowledge (not just what someone told me) of the alien space craft hidden from the american people" in the deposition under oath to the senate, it would make a difference to your views here ?



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    #1270
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121531513#Comment_121531513

    He's going to release an op Ed where he won't be under oath, won't have any consequences for lying and is unlikely to meet any direct challenge or difficult questions.

    That's convenient.


    We do know that he believes and passes on false stories. So you must agree he's either gullible or lying.

    Post edited by King Mob on


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    #1271
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121531591#Comment_121531591

    Possibly.


    Someone making such claims who has a previous history of being gullible and repeating lies or just lying themselves, nope.

    Someone who has a history of being truthful and considered a reliable witness on other such matters, probably.

    Someone who can produce evidence to back up their remarkable claims, yes.


    But you have claimed that someone saying that they have first hand knowledge of such things would be killed, or their brain turned to mush, by Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones. Yet you haven't been able to provide anything to back up the claims of people being killed off either.



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    #1272
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121531879#Comment_121531879

    This is part of the grift I think.

    Gruash claims to be about to provide first hand knowledge. So when it comes out as just another pile of nothing, either having no actual details or anything verifiable, he can claim that if he went into details he'd be killed.

    It's a very easy out for him.



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    #1273
    celtic_oz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭celtic_oz


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121531848#Comment_121531848

    Grusch you are hearby ordered not to say another word unless under oath, by order of KingMob ( who BTW also believes you are wrong about the Italian UFO and strangely thinks anyone cares )

    Don't think your kingdom reaches that far King

    Someone making such claims who has a previous history of being gullible and repeating lies or just lying themselves, nope. Someone who has a history of being truthful and considered a reliable witness on other such matters, probably. Someone who can produce evidence to back up their remarkable claims, yes.

    So it makes no difference if you wouldn't believe him anyway. So why on earth do you go on about it being only what he believes ??

    But you have claimed that someone saying that they have first hand knowledge of such things would be killed, or their brain turned to mush, by Will Smith and Tommy Lee Jones. Yet you haven't been able to provide anything to back up the claims of people being killed off either.

    I didnt claim anything of the sort.

    I said "Grusch mentioned people have been killed and he himself and family were threatened." He also said he referred the people who made allegations of murder to the inspector general, whether he recieved any specific details like names etc is anyones guess, he did not elaborate. His complaint regarding intimidation of himself and his family is widely known and it and the other allegations were described as "credible and urgent" so I'd imagine he provided some proof to the inspector.

    There is no smoking gun that Grusch is lying, yet if at all.



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    #1274
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121531898#Comment_121531898

    Keep in mind Grusch wasn't revealing anything classified, everything was cleared, so he was free to give details. He wasn't actually "whistle-blowing".

    Also intelligence officers in the US DoD are a dime a dozen. Right now, any of us (as a US citizen) could apply for a starting job as a GMI analyst, pass the poly, get that, pass probation and you're already handling top secret information. Then just sit and wait for a gravy train opening in a UAP/UFO post.

    You don't even need that, just look at the guy from the Youtube video earlier, a chemist, who was randomly offered a job in some UFO study. Now he appears in Youtube videos hinting at "aliens" and the supernatural. The UFO circuit exists for anyone who has had any of those types of jobs and that circus doesn't require actual evidence. One minute you're the chief scientist on a UAP report, the next you're appearing on 'Ancient Aliens' and 'The Secrets of Skinwalker Ranch'

    Post edited by Dohnjoe on


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    #1275
    Dohnjoe
    Registered Users Posts: 17,795 ✭✭✭✭Dohnjoe


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121531944#Comment_121531944

    There is no smoking gun that Grusch is lying, yet if at all.

    Of course there isn't. He can sit there and say "someone in the military told me they absolutely saw an alien spacecraft" all day long. Likewise he can sit there and say "my life is in danger for revealing this" all day long.

    And if he is lying on top of that, it's simple for him to defend.

    If I testified under oath that I definitely saw a ghost, could you prove I was lying? Nope.



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    #1276
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121531944#Comment_121531944

    What a bizarre response.

    I'm just pointing out that 1. he is only presenting his "first hand experience" when he is at no risk of consequences. And 2. he presents a false story under oath.

    These are red flags to me and most reasonable people. You don't see the issue.



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    #1277
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121531968#Comment_121531968

    Still not sure how that works in the conspiracy. If there's people being killed for it, and it's a cover up that goes above even congress, it doesn't make sense that any of the stuff he said would have been cleared. Surely they could have just declared it all classified and prevented him from presenting even the unverified anecdotes he did.

    Like with all conspiracy theories, the conspirators are alternatively all powerful and incompetent depending on which is more convenient for the theory.



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    #1278
    lumphammer2
    Registered Users Posts: 747 ✭✭✭lumphammer2


    I 100% believe in aliens .... there just is no way Earth can be the only planet of trillions+ planets out there with life ... I also believe in UFOs .... but do not believe in aliens having visited earth in recent times ... I believe though Earth life as we know it were originally aliens ... but do not see any evidence of aliens visiting since then ...

    Like we never visited any other planet I feel other civilisations are equally unable to visit us ... maybe that is how it is intended ... UFOs are definitely likely to be from Russia if seen in the West and from the West if seen in Russia ... countries between the 2 will see both Western and Russian 'UFOs' ....

    I got a book for a loan ... would not buy one ... off of a friend who is a self styled UFOlogist ... it is the story of the author driving along a remote road .. it had to be remote! ... and then seeing a bright light his car coming to a halt and then being escorted by 3 little green men to a flying saucer ... then brought to some other planet ... then tested and asked questions in that galactic language known as English! ... author said they were friendly and hospitable with earth like food and wine offered!! ... and brought back home .... clearly 100% sci fi ...

    UFOs are man made spycraft simple as ... aliens exist almost for sure but there is no evidence of them coming here apart from ourselves ... a comet or something did bring life here which proves life is somewhere else as well ...



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    #1279
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    So it makes no difference if you wouldn't believe him anyway. So why on earth do you go on about it being only what he believes ??

    The reason for him not being believable is because he gives unbelievable stories with no evidence to back them up.

    If someone had a history of giving truthful stories with evidence to back them up, then their subsequent claims of something more unbelievable would be granted more reliability... But someone who usually provides reliable evidence to back up their claims is less likely to be repeating fanciful stories that cannot be proven in the first place.


    If some random person comes up to me in the street ranting about having been abducted by aliens then I'll take that as a random person ranting in the street.

    If Proffesor Brian Cox (of Things Can Only Get Better fame) came out and said that he'd been abducted by aliens then depending on the time of year it would be considered an April fools or sketch for Comic Relief.. But after those reasons were discounted his claims would get more considered with more weight than the random person in the street.



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    #1280
    celtic_oz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭celtic_oz


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121531997#Comment_121531997

    Agreed, he could still be telling the truth. So when you said " I called out Grusch, and I was right." You were actually wrong, you can't prove anything he said was false or that he was lying.

    King you can present no credible evidence that Grusch is presenting a false story under oath. Your red flags are just in your head.



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    #1281
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121532487#Comment_121532487

    Nope. I've already presented plenty of evidence that the Italian UFO story is false.

    You agree that it's false as you've been very careful to avoid this evidence and to avoid addressing the issue. We all know that if you were asked directly if you believed the story, you won't answer. So there's no point rehashing it.

    I think Gruash fully believes that story because he's a bit gullible and doesn't do anything to verify the stories he hears.


    What I think you're doing now is reverting to the tactic of "well you don't have any evidence either, so there!."



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    #1282
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121532487#Comment_121532487

    The being under oath or not makes no difference. He is just repeating things that someone else told him. The oath doesn't mean that the things he's been told are true, just that he's repeating what he was told accurately... Assuming he's not breaking his oath.


    Nothing has been presented though to show that the stories he's repeating are true in the first instance though.



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    #1283
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121532616#Comment_121532616

    Gee... it's almost like getting to have a hearing at congress under oath provides a boost of credibility amongst certain audiences.

    If I were part of a cadre of folks making money off UFO claims, that sure sounds like something I'd be pushing for...



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    #1284
    celtic_oz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭celtic_oz


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121532512#Comment_121532512

    You have presented NOTHING that is credible I'm afraid. Similar evidence presented for a UFO encounter would be thrown out.

    So maligning Grusch as gullable is simply circular reasoning. QED.



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    #1285
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121533338#Comment_121533338

    But I have presented evidence.

    I've explained why the story is false.

    You don't even believe the story.


    Gruash is gullible and a bad researcher. There's nothing circular about it.



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    #1286
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121533338#Comment_121533338

    We don't have to prove the negative. You need to prove the incredible claims you are making.

    The default position is that there are no aliens. Prove otherwise.


    If there were little green men walking among us and we were still claiming that there was no such thing as little green men, then yes we would be the ones making the incredible claims and need to prove that those little green men were not actually there and everyone were just imagining them.

    That isn't the case though. You are the one making unsubstantiated and unproven claims. You are the one who needs to prove your case.



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    #1287
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121533401#Comment_121533401

    We get the same kinda point from the flat earthers.

    "You can't prove the earth is round."


    It's just an extention of the "nuh uh, you are!" tactic we've seen used since school.



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    #1288
    celtic_oz
    Registered Users Posts: 1,554 ✭✭✭celtic_oz


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121533400#Comment_121533400

    But I have presented evidence.

    We know, unfortunately its just not credible

    That means that Grusch may still be correct in his allegations and a GOOD investigator. To assume otherwise would lead you to a circular conclusion that he is gullible.

    We don't have to prove the negative. You need to prove the incredible claims you are making. The default position is that there are no aliens. Prove otherwise.

    In this instance Grusch is making the claims. Try not to get lost here.

    Any evidence presented backing up his claims is claimed to be not credible

    Likewise all evidence thus far presented that his claims are false are not credible.

    Still with us or are you still confused ?



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    #1289
    King Mob
    Registered Users Posts: 25,229 ✭✭✭✭King Mob


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121533428#Comment_121533428

    But you've not explained why it's not credible. You've simply declared it such. I actually suspect that you've forgotten the argument I used to show the story is false.


    But this is of course moot as you don't even believe the story yourself.



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    #1290
    Giblet
    Registered Users Posts: 11,977 ✭✭✭✭Giblet


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121533428#Comment_121533428

    That's some bizarre logic there...



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    #1291
    robinph
    Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,079 Mod ✭✭✭✭robinph


    In this instance Grusch is making the claims. Try not to get lost here.


    Any evidence presented backing up his claims is claimed to be not credibe


    But you are the one who believes his claims based on zero evidence. Why?



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