Tenant leaving before notice, asking for rent back

Mav26 · 12-12-2023 05:34PM #1

Hello!

i’m new as a landlord, i want to act well, but i’m a bit annoyed at the same time.

My tenant gave me less than the right amount of notice, i had to move my plans around and arrange for a new tenant. He had paid the full month in advance and now he’s asking for the portion of the rent back If the new tenant moves in during the month he has already paid for. I’ve been a tenant for many years and it never came to my mind to ask for something like that when it was me leaving.

Do i have to give him that back and also the deposit? I know i managed to find someone, but this way he broke the contract really, am I right? Just looking for advice as rtb hasn’t got back to me yet.

thanks a lot in advance

Rows Grower · 12-12-2023 05:45PM

Whatever you do don't rely on the RTB to do their job, they seem to think they are a law onto themselves but they are in for a rude awakening.

It's none of your soon to be ex tenant's business when you get new tenants to move into your property. He signed a contract with you for your house, if he choses to break that contract then that is his choice and his loss.

Notmything · 12-12-2023 05:48PM

Have they moved out yet? What are the chances they might play silly beggars to try force your hand and refund them?

Mav26 · 12-12-2023 06:23PM

he just moved this week. He kind of knows the new tenant will move this weekend because we’re chatting about how the viewings went and i’ve been naif openly talking to him. He also posted the ad on his work page so he had asked for the moving date.

after the viewings he asked for the money back directly and when I said no he did not took it well saying that i wanted to charge a fee for leaving earlier. I explained it all, but What I don’t like is that when I got the email with information about the time he was leaving, he stated “even though I paid the full amount of rent for the month, I’m leaving on x day”. I know i was naif and i should have said nothing to him, but I did. Can I keep doing that? Or can I get into trouble? I really don’t want to have issues, but I can’t understand how this is possible!

12-12-2023 06:46PM

For the sake of less hassle, so long as you are not rushing in a new tenant without fully vetting them I'd possibly agree to them getting the balance back, so there is no messing around, even though I think they may be liable (you need to know this rather than be asking), I think the requirement could be that they are supposed to give notice (but are unlikely to be held to it by anyone), I think it would also require you to mitigate your losses by getting a replacement tenant as soon as possible, so having proof you advertised or tried to re-let promptly would be in your interest. I haven't reviewed specific legislation of it in years, you need to be up to date and proficient at what the requirements are, and all the laws.

Also, who got the new tenant? did you fully? you mentioned they advertised it on their work page?? what is that? you mean they advertised it and you got a tenant via that process?

I'd be cautious if they did, while the new tenant may be ok, have you vetted them?

You should likely review your lease contract (is it formal from a solicitor who deals with these things?), if not I'd look into that before re-letting to the new person, ie review lease contract, read the legislation inside out, know and understand it.

Kaisr Sose · 12-12-2023 06:52PM

Is this a room in a property you live in (licence) or a full let of property (lease)?

Mav26 · 12-12-2023 07:04PM

Full let of property

12-12-2023 07:15PM

I think you have brought some of this on yourself. The ex tenant knows your buisness.

The deposit should be repaid if there is no damage.

The rent should not be paid as he has not honoured the contract.

But life is short. If you not out of pocket. Maybe give the rent back and learn for the next time?

Have yourself fully protected with property registered, and a good contract. And keep your business private.

Kaisr Sose · 12-12-2023 07:31PM

Ok.

I have been in a similar situation. Tenant gave notice. They left early and demanded rent back. I said no as I was not aware they left. I had people lined up to paint it but that was after the notice expired. So it was empty for longer than it should have been between tenancy. They took a case to RTB but lost. I believe I won more on a technicality than outright. It was a bit of a mess, and tenant very arkward, entitled type.

In your case, you say you have rented the place again so you can't really argue financial loss. If you are not out of pocket, and happy with new tenant (see below) come to a deal with old tenant on last months rent. A 50/50 split on sum is a good outcome if you can get it. RTB may not rule in your favour of you have no loss.

Before.doing this, if it's not too late, vet new tenant. Don't take old tenants word alone. Any problems later on will be yours, not the old tenants.

Good luck!

jimmycrackcorm · 12-12-2023 07:40PM

The thing to be careful about is if the tenant has paid for the full month then they're entitled to the full month.

Which will be awkward if you're moving a new tenant in, before the month is up

Mav26 · 12-12-2023 09:41PM

Thanks a lot. Yes new tenant has been vetted. The only reason why I was in a rush is because I leave the country this week and won’t be back before mid Jan.

I think I’ll just give that back, I have a very stressful year and I can’t cope having issues/arguments at this point.

thanks for the advise!

12-12-2023 09:48PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488865#Comment_121488865

In a rush! Id be careful, being a landlord here isnt easy, you need to be on top of things. I think your tenant is wrong and may not be eligible to get that rent back or entitled to stay as a previous poster said if they told you they were leaving and left, especially without notice, BUT I think it's better for you to just take this as experience and don't lose anything from any period between their leaving and the new tenant starting, that way if they take a case in the RTB against you look good. I really would review your rental agreement, but it seems you have already signed it, and Xmas time is a bad time to start leases in my opinion (although Im not sure when is a good time anymore).

If you can't cope with having arguments/issues, I'd reconsider letting the new tenant move in and just sell, prices are good now, seriously, it is nothing but hassle imo, why I got out. Basically just an agent taking all the responsibility to transfer wealth (tax) to the State who take no responsibility.

FYI, I think this should be in the accommodation forum

Mav26 · 12-12-2023 11:15PM

Yeah I hear you and I’m thinking of it.

I was not looking to be a landlord myself, it happened for a number reasons. Selling is definitely in the picture now and this is definitely a lesson learnt!

thanks for the support!

12-12-2023 11:28PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121489230#Comment_121489230

Well, if thats the case, dont let a new tenant in the door if you arent certain or committed to holding out for 6 years minimum, it will be 6 years tenancy, Id be very wary, and more so if you signed a lease, could be they have 6 years already even if not in the door, Your tenant may have done you a favour leaving, which is why I wouldnt make a fuss over it.

tvjunki · 13-12-2023 06:32PM

Is this a new tenancy or the person is taking over the existing tenancy? Is taking over then they have more rights than you think. Your ex tenant found them . Personally I would find my own so no risk of tenant expecting 6 months notice to quit if you want to sell.

If it was me I would delay so there is a few days between the end of the existing lease. Your ex tenant would not be in entitled to the amount of the rent when they moved out. Have you seen the house? Are there any maintenance issues with the property and has it been cleaned well? Did they empty the bins? Are the energy bills back in your name? You may find they should not get their money back.

meijin · 14-12-2023 12:14AM

sure, it's annoying, but stop looking for excuses to get double rent paid for a period of time and refund the overpayment before it goes to RTB

previously RTB ruled that LL is meant to minimize their losses, even if a tenant leaves early

Donald Trump · 14-12-2023 12:22AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121493135#Comment_121493135

Without getting too complicated or off the point, there is an obligation in general to mitigate a loss where you reasonably can. That principle is not in any way specific to landlords or property. If you fail to mitigate a loss, where you could reasonably have done so, you won't succeed in a claim for the portion you should have mitigated.

Donald Trump · 14-12-2023 12:39AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121488301#Comment_121488301

Posters going on about "breach of contract".............But as you say, the tenant has paid for the full month then they have the use of the house for the month. The landlord could no more keep the money but still rent it out to a second person during that period than they could decide to rent the entire premises each to two separate persons at the same time.

If the landlord wants to "punish" the original tenant for not giving the required notice then that tenant can now give the required notice, and then possibly request that they assign the lease (or sublet) to someone else for the remainder of the lease. If the landlord refuses then the tenant can probably just terminate the lease. Might depend on the lease terms.

If the landlord thinks they are smart and tries to "call the tenant's bluff" by allowing them to assign the lease then a number of things can happen. First would be that the new tenant that the landlord found would likely be pissed off as the best case scenario involves them waiting a few weeks. The second might be that the original tenant might indeed assign the lease to someone who might end up overholding etc.

Ultimately, as explained above, the landlord would have to show a loss to succeed in any defence to a claim. There is no loss as described.

Grumpypants · 14-12-2023 08:07AM

If they left the house in good condition and you got someone new in so you are not out of pocket I'd just leave it.

If there was a week between them leaving and someone new coming in maybe you could keep that week. But it all seems a bit too much hassle for me to bother over a few euro.

Field east · 14-12-2023 08:59AM

fir piece of mind I would pay back the amount of rent not used. You could negotiate That only some of the unused rent should be returned because of inadequate notice and see how you get on. But before you make a decision on the unused rent I would , first off, establish if there was any damage done/things broken / no outstanding gas or electrical bills, etc and then come to a value of same. You would need to ‘have a conversation’ with your ex- tenant and get his agreement , hopefully.

I see both issues’ interlinked’ . So , for example, if you are in a position to return the deposit in full - probably means that you can rent the property immediately he vacates it - then I would pay the unused part back to him

Rows Grower · 14-12-2023 09:20AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121493163#Comment_121493163

Balderdash.

Donald Trump · 14-12-2023 09:45AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121493516#Comment_121493516

Translation - you don't have a clue.....You can't even find the words to make a basic attempt at refuting something (simple) that you can't fathom.

.............As if your earlier post wasn't evidence enough. You gave the following, wholly irrelevant rant.

Whatever you do don't rely on the RTB to do their job, they seem to think they are a law onto themselves but they are in for a rude awakening.

Are you going to give the RTB this rude awakening? Lol

But please do come back to me to point out which parts of that previous post you can't understand, ot disagree with. Thanks.

15-12-2023 07:52AM

Op. Give the tenant the deposit and pro rata rent owed. The real problems you may face is when tenants refuse to move out, not when they want to move out.

Rows Grower · 15-12-2023 08:45AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121493616#Comment_121493616

Balderdash - meaning... senseless talk or writing; nonsense.

Donald Trump · 15-12-2023 09:41AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121497680#Comment_121497680

Have another go. Identify the points which you think are incorrect.

Because otherwise (and this is far more likely the actual reason) the reason that it appears senseless to you is that you cannot make sense of it. But that is on you.

spaceHopper · 15-12-2023 05:12PM

Do nothing, when the place is empty, inspect it. You would be amazed what people thinks is OK, like leaving their old stuff behind, not cleaning. Missing stuff.

Not empty, send message for them to remove the rest of their stuff.....

Take meter reading send them to them make sure they have paid the bills. When the new tenant moves in. Calculate a balance and send it to them. Tell them if they are happy to send on their IBAN number and then refund them.

Gael23 · 18-12-2023 07:42PM

If he left the house in good order and was a good tenant I would give him the money.

Glurrl · 19-12-2023 12:31PM

You want to be paid twice for the same accommodation? If you have a tenant to move in, give the other one thier money back.

Tenant leaving before notice, asking for rent back

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