Curse on the people who digitized the property boundaries of Ireland.

Tim_from_Trim · 10-12-2023 08:36PM #1

Hello Folks,

I should of reached out to this group a long time ago. Ive always gotten good advice from Boards.ie and I appreciate it. Basically I'm trying to help my mother sell her house. Of course at the last minute we found out there was 'mapping issues' on her property. I'm looking for any advice on this bc I'm at my wits ends to be honest. This has been dragging on for months. You can see from the Land Direct maps - there is obviously an issue on how the folio / boundary were mapped. I honestly dont know the difference between titles, boundaries, folios, etc. This is a standard semi detached house in an estate and the folio ends at the front door! Our solicitor said we should try and get the 'owner' of my mothers front garden to sign over the folio. We found the original owner and in fairness they are trying to help us - to a point I would say. The 'owner' of the front garden is the original builder for some reason! Its been going on for months and after many phone calls, emails, etc - they still havent signed the papers! I think they are old and afraid of signing papers. Their solicitors are useless and dont want to deal with them for some reason. My rant is over now so I have a few questions.

Does anyone know......

How did the original mappers digitize the boundaries?

Where would I find - a map or plan of the original estate - The estate is 40 years old. Surely if the original map could be found - that would show the proper boundaries. I included a google earth of the property and the map from Land Direct.

Any advice / help is defo appreciated.

Tim

lmk123 · 11-12-2023 08:10AM

The story could be worse, if the guy across the road decides to sell he will find out that part of his house is in his neighbours folio.

muffler · 11-12-2023 08:48AM

Original site layout plans would be held in your local planning office. For a small fee you can get this but it's not going to show anything in relation to legal boundaries. Contact Land Registry / Tailte Eireann or whatever they are called these days. I'm surprised your solicitor isn't offering more advice on this.

sydthebeat · 11-12-2023 08:54AM

simple enough process.

a deed of rectification is required.

if your mother has occupied that ground for 40 years, there should be no issue

https://youtu.be/GiyKCGOw0kg

and as above, id be calling in to your neighbours across the road and let them know they both a have an issue with their land registry maps as well

Tefral · 11-12-2023 08:57AM

Had the same issue with my house when I went to buy it. It looked like a 5 year old with Crayon drew my boundary.

What you need to do is a deed of rectification. Its actually very simple. Get a OS Map done. Get your mother and the person who "owns" the land to sign it.

Then get them to sign the deed of rectification. I have one in word doc format for my own house if you want it to modify for your own use.

Get them to sign a deed of rectification and send it to the PRA with the map

I did all the leg work on mine and actually drove up to the neighbours who like your person were in agreement and just wanted it sorted.

The joke of it all is that the PRA maps say they operate a non conclusive boundary system, yet it causes so many issues.

Furze99 · 11-12-2023 09:16AM

Worked in an architectural practice about 40 years ago that handled estate developments like this. It was standard practice there to make up a registry map for each individual property, edged in red. All manual of course. These sort of documents should be what was digitised.

Looking at your situation, the property is at the end of access road. Is it possible that the architect/ builder originally planned this for a turn about, that was never constructed?

Dr.Tom · 11-12-2023 12:22PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121481638#Comment_121481638

Sorry to jump in and hijack.

When you say get an OS map done what exactly do you mean? I am in a similar situation where my land also has a red strip going to nowhere. Its not a right of way, too narrow for an entrance and all maps I have seen have zero showing of it. Consensus is an error during digitization which I'm told was outsourced to India and causes daily issues.

Tefral · 11-12-2023 12:38PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121482434#Comment_121482434

Basically you get an Appendix 4 compliant map (scale 1:1000 or 1:2500) You mark the on the map the section that needs to be transferred into your neighbours folio and the section that needs to be transferred into your folio. I marked them X and Y and redlined them. Then as part of the deed of rectification you make reference to that map and once its all signed and witnessed, send it to the PRA who will update the map on line.

So here is an example of mine. My neighbour is on the top and im on the bottom of this.

I had to transfer him back the section i owned that was in blue (in his land) and he had to transfer the section to me that was in Pink (on my land) you can clearly see the fence line between us. The incentive is they wouldnt have been able to sell their house to anyone that was getting a mortgage so no push back.

Dr.Tom · 11-12-2023 12:50PM

Great info. Thanks Tefral.

Tefral · 11-12-2023 12:59PM

Just be aware, if both properties have a mortgage, you also need a letter from the mortgage holders on both sides agreeing to their consent also, which will be no bother because they wont be able to sell in the case of a repossession without going through the hassle themselves.

Dr.Tom · 11-12-2023 01:06PM

Also staying on this topic and apologies for the continued hijack.

Is there a means to check land registry amendments?

ie. when a change was made, by who, when and why?

Tim_from_Trim · 20-12-2023 08:21PM

Dr Tom - I don't have an answer to that question but I was able to get my mothers boundary issues and folios fixed. Essentially I used Land Direct.ie to find out who exactly owned both folios on my mothers garden. I explained the situation to both of them and in fairness nearly begged them to sign a contract to say their folio belonged to my mothers folio. I enclosed the typical boiler plate legal shite they would need to sign. I had to drive down to one of their houses (nearly 4 hours) to get them to sign. Once you get the docs signed by the folios owners - you give them to your solicitor who puts in an application to the land registry to update the folio.

In our case I felt like the digitization of the original plans might of been of been the issue - you can email the quality assurance of the PRAI to double check the maps and folios but my solicitor said this would be a waste of time. qaexternal@prai.ie

Its too late now but I did learn that - get a local solicitor who deals with land conveyancing - they will know the local builders and local people. They will have connections that will make it easier. I made the mistake of using a solicitor 100s of miles away and this defo did not help.

THE PROPERTY REGISTRATION AUTHORITY

CONSENT RE: AMENDMENT OF BOUNDARIES

Joe Bloggs Limited the registered owners of the property described in Folio of the Register of Freeholders County Dublin and

Mae West the registered owner of the property described in Folio XXXXX of the Register County Dublin having discovered that the registered

boundaries of our respective properties do not correspond with the physical boundaries between our respective properties as they exist on the ground

HEREBY REQUIRE that the registered boundaries be amended to correspond with the said physical boundaries on the ground and say as

follows:- WHEREAS it has come to light that due to a mapping error the portion of the property lettered “A” and coloured green on the map annexed hereto, has been erroneously registered as part of Folio XXXXXX of the Register of Freeholders County Dublin and should form part of the lands of Folio XXXXXX of the Register of Freeholders County Dublin.

I, Mae West the registered owner of the property comprised in Folio XXXXXX HEREBY CONSENT to the consolidation of the property

described in paragraph one above with our lands comprised in said Folio XXXXXX.

Curse on the people who digitized the property boundaries of Ireland.

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