Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

The condemnations that had to be dragged out of you, always with reservations and whataboutery and ifs and buts and maybes?

Nope, you never trot this line of questioning out for claims of atrocities alleged against Israel, so the "bar of evidence" angle won't wash.

There is sufficient evidence to conclude that Hamas burned civilians, from the footage and other evidence available. Similarly, there is sufficient evidence to conclude they celebrated such acts.

That is the truth. Do you deny it?

So why muddy that with "just asking questions" about the ghoulish specifics of the atrocities and exactly what horrific acts were directly witnessed? Why someone would take such issue with the claim someone actually saw it plainly speaks to a different agenda.

And don't pretend this is done in some neutral stance, setting some bar for evidence, because it is just your posts defending Hamas in a way your posts never defend Israel.

It is not fanciful, releasing the hostages ends Israel's justifications. That is why the EU have called for the unconditional release of the hostages from the very start. They know that if the hostages are released, that they can make Israel stop.

It should be long evident to you that Israel has used the Oct 7th attacks by Hamas as a means to justify its genocidal intent.

It has killed hostages held by Hamas (and also Israeli citizens during its response on Oct 7th) and has repeatedly shown little or no interest in entertaining the offers for hostage exchanges that Hamas has proposed.

Israel has no justification for much of its actions over the last 6 weeks, full stop and if and when this does come to an end, it should face charges for its actions in the same way Hamas participants should be held accountable for theirs.

I have close to no expectation that this will happen with respect to Israel and that is of course something they've known all along. They are a rogue state which is carrying out a genocide.

And there are others who throw the fog of October 7th over the decades of atrocities carried out by Israel. This didn’t start on October 7th, the most surprising thing is that anyone is surprised it happened.

Mass murdering civilians in revenge isn’t war either, it’s a holocaust.

I condemned Hamas, without reservation, without qualification, without equivocation, multiple times. So at least be honest.

You speak of muddying the waters. The claim was that a poster had seen a video, that no one else has ever claimed existed or to have claimed to have seen. That’s evidence enough for you. Fine.

The principle of what can be claimed without evidence can be dismissed without evidence only applies to posters you disagree with. Fine.

You won't find a single post of mine excusing Hamas' behaviour. You know this, stop pretending I have done so. I have made posts saying that it is reasonable for Israel to pursue them in various ways including using Mossad to 'neutralise' its leaders. How much more acknowedlgement do you want from me beyond what I've said about Hamas's actions being horrific, and unacceptable?

There absolutely is clear evidence of Israel committing war crimes. But you can relax, they will not be held accountable. And Israel's PM shown a map at the UN of the 'new middle east region' with Palestine completely removed, he has since spoken of bibilical guidance to justify the killing of all Palestinians. These are facts.

I presume when you talk about the unconditional release of hostages, you are including the thousands of Palestinians held without charge in Israeli prisons?

I see Hamas as a terrorist organization, I have been clear about this since I first posted. You will have to construct a different strawman if you think you can challenge any support for them coming from my direction.

If oct 7 happened here I would wish the purps to suffer greatly

Do Palestinians have the right to self defense under international law ?

Link

[p.225] Article 33 is derived from Article 50 of the Hague Regulations: "No general penalty, pecuniary or otherwise, shall be inflicted upon the population on account of the acts of individuals for which they can not be regarded as jointly and severally responsible".

Or maybe you can tell us how telling the entire population of an area to move, or turning off power/water/internet to them, or targeting water supply lines, bakeries etc doesn't constitute this.

Who is saying otherwise?

That would at least be something positive to come out of all the death and suffering.

Should be easy to find such posts then. I only recall ones couched in reservation and whataboutery or vagueness, without accepting their atrocities as a fact.

Similarly, should be easy to find the posts where you challenged with "dismissed without evidence" for an accusation against Israel. Because when you only bring it out for claims against Hamas, you can see why is creates the impression you are here as a Hamas defender and tacit supporter.

"At least be honest"? Those are your words not mine, so maybe take your own advice.

There is sufficient evidence to conclude that Hamas burned civilians, from the footage and other evidence available. Similarly, there is sufficient evidence to conclude they celebrated such acts.

Do you deny it?

You were asked that as a simple question in previous post and no answer was given.

So if you don't deny it - do you accept Hamas carried out such atrocities and do you condemn Hamas for it, without reservation, without ifs?

And if you accept it happened, why would you take such issue with the possibility that somewhere online such footage was actually seen?

And why does that seem to matter more to you than the fact of what Hamas actually did?

Given that we know Hamas carried out atrocities against civilians, and we know from body cam footage they recorded atrocities and shared them online before being taken down, and what has been shared in mainstream media is redacted.

Yes, it's widely accepted that around 800 Israeli civilians were murdered by Hamas on October 7th, mostly as a result of being shot dead. However, many of the more lurid and horrific claims of how some of them were killed which emerged in the following two or three days do not appear to have been substantiated or proven (so far).

One of the memories that I can't unsee is when ISI paraded their prisoners, handcuffed and dressed in vivid orange jumpsuits (Guantanamo style) before executing them by beheading them, except for the Jordanian Pilot who they burnt alive. For me, Hamas and ISIS are one and the same thing. There is no difference in either their methods of terror or global aims of an Islamic Caliphate. The Palestinians are just a means to an end for them, nothing more.