Irish Property Market chat II - *read mod note post #1 before posting*

There are a few websites I use that you can rent an "AirBnB" (or just a short term rental) off the books. People like to act like its all scary and you cant trust the renter or the owner, but its no different to how it was done 10 years ago.

You send them a deposit and the rest on arriving or leaving. Always found it easy. Every airbnb (or any other site) ive stayed in in the last 3 years or so ive got the number of the owner off them after the first stay. If i stay again i just look at the dates on airbnb (or whichever site i found them on) to see if its free for those dates, then send a message to the person with my details, reminding them who i am and when i stayed before. We come to a cash agreement for a discount and how and when it is to be paid and they block the dates it off airbnb.

I doubt any of them are paying tax on short term lets happening off the books, but thats up to them.

So limiting Airbnb to 30 days isnt going to be a problem for anyone except revenue and airbnb.

Just two upcoming examples. Im going to Portugal for 2 weeks in the summer. Emailed the owner of the apartment I stayed in last year. He said fine, see you then. Thats gone off airbnb now. Im paying about €400 less than it would have cost me to book it through airbnb. Revoluted him €100, I'll hand him cash when I get there.

Going to Donegal at Easter. Same thing. Contacted an apartment owner from one of the websites you see them advertised on now. They phoned me. Sent €50 deposit by revolut. Cash to be handed over during the stay.

Its all very easy and much cheaper than Airbnb.

Staycity setups are primarily new-build hotels. Some even have bars; but the rooms are all apartments. Locke Living (two in Dublin) are the same.

A lot of brand hotels are now having any new buildings with the apartment type setup.

Parents have been using managed apartments since we were young for holidays all over Europe and the USA. Quite a lot of them in Barcelona too. Ireland is only catching up the last decade or so. A lot of people prefer these apartment short stay setups to regular hotel stays. I stayed in one a few years ago in the Canary Islands that actually had both normal bedrooms and apartment rooms all in the one hotel.

I posted "AirBNB take a cut of up to 14%"

You posted, and I quote directly "Airbnb's cut is 3% from hosts".

I then provided supporting evidence that stated, again directly: "Airbnb’s commission can go up to 14% or more"

It would seem to me that you were rather definitively wrong in your statement of fact.

You suggesting that some airbnbs charged 900euro a night, on one night of the year, is not a true reflection on times when demand is higher either.

The 1:3 standard ratio of AirBNB revenue to rental income is. Which would suggest 30 days a year of AirBNB hosting will not come anywhere close to 12 months a year of private rental sector income for the vast, vast majority of properties. Which is exactly why stricter regulation is incoming, to force them back to the market.

The arguments on here amount to the equivalent of saying "Builders should not have to pay tax on their income because some of them can break the law by failing to declare and pay tax on cash payments as it is"

Nobody was giving that advice though were they? And who said people should not pay tax? Its up to us all to get our own tax affairs in order. Always been like that. I cant control what tax you pay, so its none of my concern.

I do the same going to this holiday home in Kerry. Got to know the owner, I just text her and she blocks the dates for me. Then I pay her when we leave, she doesn't even want a deposit.

They wont be returned to the market if the owner doesnt want to go down that road.

If the govt made renting out property more secure for a landlord, we would see more propetry for rent.

Its more carrot and less stick that is needed.

Its easy to avoid the stick, as many on this thread have explained.

Yes, I wish there was more of a deep dive into the figures about which Dublin post codes and price brackets were seeing the highest falls (or increases).

I think if anything, any house under 400 or 400k is still rising as those that would have sought out 500k houses are now bidding for properties 100k less as their purchasing power diminishes...

We will pay dearly for this stupidity

Nobody should be allowed to profit from state subsidised/provided property. Council property that is not fully utilised should be made a house share for willing tenants

And this "imaginary basket" is used by central banks all over the world as the best means to calculate inflation/value of money.

Therefore a 5.5% increase whilst property staying the same price would reduce the value of the housing by same percent...? Again that's not including the decline that's actually happening to the price which is resulting in over 7% decline.

Probably best to compare to wage inflation rather than CPI to assess change in ‘real’ affordability.

Wages are running at somewhere between 4%-5% over the last year. So your conclusion is correct, overall house prices have fallen quite significantly in ‘real’ terms in the last 12 months.

Makes them more attainable for those stuck with the 4x LTI constraint. However the reduction in real prices is probably more than eaten up by increase cost of Finance for those with a mortgage.

What you're really saying is the expected rise in house prices didn't happen, and therefore you're counting it as a saving.

Since inflation includes mortgage payments, the actual amount that mortgage holders will pay becomes more detached from the purchase price as inflation increases. So in real terms you're getting even less for your money.

If you're looking at house prices over 48 months, then house prices inflated by an average of 5% annually, while inflation was 3.8% annually.

So yes, perhaps you could argue that house prices are 7% cheaper this year compared to last, but you'd have to disregard that house prices have climbed dramatically over the past 5 years and that the average mortgage holder is paying more this year than they were last year.

I'm open to being corrected on any of this.

Yeah, probably the fact that I am a cash buyer means I view it differently to most.

I haven't done the math but people trading up with a good bit of equity probably benefit too. Especially as people here have mentioned it's the upper end reducing the most.

People downsizing are probably worst off...? Anyone doing so want to share their experience?