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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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Comments

  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    China is adding nuclear plants, sure, but again, they are filling a niche only

    image.png

    Wind and solar rollout in China are leaving it for dust. They now get more energy from solar, wind & hydro

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    It says a lot that even in China, nuclear can't move beyond a niche source, so while there may be a couple of new reactors opening, the overall share doesn't look like it will increase too much

    image.png

    Now they do have a lot of work to do on coal, but it looks like the renewable expansion is already making the coal plants unviable, even in China



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I suppose ya have accepted ya misread things. Good. Room to improve.

    If you wish to be childish I'll note to point out all future grammar issues to you, your choice

    The rest of your post is just a collection of whataboutery and has not answered the question I put to you



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,709 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    This whole offshore plan is typical green thinking. Latching on to an idea without any idea of the cost or consequences and then doubling down each time it is shown to them how daft the idea is.


    When they finally accepted that for long periods wind levels all over Europe dropped to virtually nothing ( providing just 6% and lower of demand here), they came up with this 37GW offshore brainfart of wind + hydrogen. Still unable to provide any costs, or not honest enough too as they know it kill their insane idea before it even got in the water.


    What we do know is that just for the offshore part of this plan, if you could call it a plan, the capital cost would be anywhere between €140 Billion and €220 Billion with further major capital costs ever 20 -25 years. All to be paid for by the consummer + the cost of generation + a profit margin + all the associated hydrogen costs (manufacture, storage and distribution) + the desalination cost of the plants required and their operation costs, and just to add a cherry on top, Ryan has guaranteed these offshore operators that consummers will also pay for any and all electricity generated even if we do not need or use it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,051 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    WTF are ya on about? Childish shite now would be to start critiquing grammar. Is it incomprehensible? Do you not understand what's being written?

    And I answered. I said just transition funding should be cut. Even gave reasons why. I'll just pick the line out for ya

    If I was to cut something it would be surveys and rubbish like that and spend the money on things that may actually make a difference.



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The whataboutery you listed have little to do with JT

    Before you deprive the JT areas of funding you should have a read up on the purpose of it. I would strongly disagree with a reduction in funding for those areas. They are among the first impacted by our moves to reduce emissions and have to be supported. Why you deem these areas unworthy of vital support is honestly a bit cruel imho



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,051 ✭✭✭roosterman71


    I didn't say deprive them did I? Again, you read and register something different. I said it should be cut and not be wasting money on surveys and other such crap in local authorities. They aren't really impacted but the people employed by the likes of BnaM, and other industries serving them. They need to be helped no doubt but county councils don't need money to count barn owls. The whataboutery showed that LA authorities are spending money on things they don't need (spraying kerbside weeds in NOVEMBER (lunacy)) or blowing weeds around prior to a storm using petrol blowers. If they have money for that crap, they have money to count owls without dipping into the JT fund



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,709 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    China has presently 24 new nuclear power plants under construction, they have just added a further 6 new reactors to already operational plants and are planning to add a further 6 - 8 new nuclear plants year on year for the foreseeable future. As @Shoog said they really are rolling back on their nuclear power plant plans 😅



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    As I said and showed, those plants account for a decimal point of a % share of their electricity generation. At less than 5% of total generating capacity, nuclear is a niche source even in China



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,700 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    Thing is though, they'll be base load and displacing carbon once available. Variable generation that's here today and gone tonight/tomorrow is less useful.



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The energy security review is complete and has been released




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,709 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    As I said and showed @Shoog`s notion that China and France are " rolling back" on their plans for new nuclear power plants is a nonsense, but perhaps you also believe they should both follow the insane green policy of all eggs in the renewable basket ?

    While that 5% generating capacity might seem small to you, if you compare it to offshore wind it is 12.5%, for onshore 18%, higher again for solar at around 23% and it will deliver that 5% year on year for up to 60 years regardless of weather without any further major capital investment costs.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,700 ✭✭✭✭machiavellianme


    There's a lot of reading there but my initial thoughts are that the 4 proposed focus areas aren't worth a damn if a global shock (war) broke out in the morning:

    • 1. Reduced and Responsive Demand
    • 2. A Renewables-Led System
    • 3. More Resilient Systems
    • 4. Robust Risk Governance

    Energy security should ensure sufficient reliable indigenous production to meet our needs. Anything else is just lip service. Last time I checked, you can't spin a turbine using "robust risk governance". Basically it's a 76 page document that can be distilled to Item 1-> reduce demand (all the way to zero if necessary and wait for someone else to bail us out).



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Regardless of what you or I think, China is undergoing massive expansion and rollout of renewables. It's investment in nuclear is tiny by comparison



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,088 ✭✭✭Clo-Clo


    Ireland is never going to have nuclear power, not in our lifetime anyway. So not sure why all these threads get dragged down into this discussion because it is pointless. We have interconnects to UK and will have one soon to France and yes we will probably end up using nuclear power but we won't be building on on this island.

    The plan is shared above and I don't see any huge change to this and I don't see any party in Ireland talking about nuclear.



  • Posts: 6,626 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I think DaCors post adequately illustrated where China is putting it's money and it certainly isn't nuclear.

    As for your Finnish claims, I think that has been adequately deconstructed on the Nuclear Infrastructure thread, but suffice it to say that the two main contractors almost went broke over it and it took 10 years and 10billion more than promised. Hardly a shining example of nuclear superiority.

    But as I say, its been done to death elsewhere.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,770 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    First pass on this: gov.ie - Energy Security in Ireland to 2030 (www.gov.ie). It avoids quantifying the elephant in the room, unreliable generation and dances around the edges of the topic.

    A demand-side risk can occur where there is the possibility of sudden increases in energy demand over a relatively short period of time that cannot be met by corresponding increases in supply. Demand-side risks are generally caused by weather-related events such as cold snaps or periods of low wind or a combination of these events. Ireland’s supply-side risks will reduce as it increases its renewable energy generation. However, these demand-side risks will increase as we transition away from fossil fuels such as coal and oil, and weather events impact on the availability of renewables such as wind and solar power. The dependence of the electricity system on natural gas is expected to increase in the short- to medium-term, particularly at times of very low wind. In addition, the peak day demand for natural gas is expected to increase. This means the electricity system will continue to rely on natural gas as a fuel source as it transitions to a majority-renewables system and phases out natural gas in the medium-term.

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,709 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Contrary to wherever you got the idea that not just China, but also France, were rolling back on their nuclear energy plans I have shown that if anything the opposite is true.

    You came up with the statement that renewables were considerably cheaper to put on the grid. I have shown that even after all the delays, hold-ups and cost over-runs the equivalent here for 100% of our needs would cost €35 Billion. We know that just for the capital cost alone of this offshore 37GW plan to do the same would cost anywhere between €140 Billion and €220 Billion with further major oddshore capital investments ever 20 -25 years.

    Seeing as the you made the statement that renewables were considerably cheaper than nuclear then it`s up to you to either back up that statement or do what every other green has to date done when asked the same, run away.



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    There's plenty of info out there on the cost comparison of various energy sources

    Nuclear comes out among the worst, consistently, regardless of the measure used. This has been shown time and again on the nuclear thread so I'm not sure how you missed it. Its literally the main reason why nuclear will never be anymore than a niche generation option

    image.png image.png




  • Posts: 6,626 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Charles14 has been denying that reality on the nuclear thread for as long as I have been reading it.

    It's a bit tedious that he is spamming this thread now.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,709 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    With a totally uncosted plan that would end up costing, (being generous), a minimum of €200 Billion for a population of 5 million with even more money being thrown at it every 20 -25 years, then despite all the greens efforts to kill such a conversation then it`s past time we did.

    The greens would like to have people believe that there is no interest in nuclear here. The fact is that a Think Ireland poll over two years ago found that there was an even split, 43% in favor 43% oppposed, with the age group that the Green Party recieve the highest percentage of their vote from in the last GE, the 18 -24s, 60% were in favor.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning


    But investment never the less unlike the dogmatic Greens here who don’t want to solve climate change despite the rhetoric

    all the apocalyptic posts about end of world we will burn blah blah are pointless as it’s clear you lot don’t actually want to solve anything and instead want to push the degrowth to Stone Age nonsense



  • Posts: 6,626 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Hysterical much .

    There is a reason Nuclear is dying, and that is because it cannot get investors and it cannot compete on price. No amount of hysteria is going to get people to waste their money in it.



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    We're back to the makey-uppey couple hundred billion stuff again? Its been a while



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,434 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    If feel like I'm banging my head against a brick wall here.

    I'll leave it there

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,770 ✭✭✭Pa ElGrande


    This is blatant in your face climate propaganda using tax payer funds against us.

    Mark Little and Carla O’Brien present Tomorrow Tonight, a scripted, docu-drama set 27 years in the future guiding viewers through the breaking news moments on a seismic night, as climate change pushes the planet to a moment of crisis!

    <snip>

    The programme will also report on the good news, including the Irish rural economy that has innovated and thrived despite the decline of traditional dairy and livestock farming. And, in Brazil we see a revitalised Amazon rainforest whose fate was placed in the hand of indigenous leaders in the late 2030s. source

    Net Zero means we are paying for the destruction of our economy and society in pursuit of an unachievable and pointless policy.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,709 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    If either of you could back up your claims with a cost for your 37 GW offshore plan or even make an attempt to explain how you believe a plan for 100% of our needs would not be at a minimum cost 7 times greater than the equivalant of Finland`s nuclear for the same I just might take ye seriously. As it is all either of you is doing is the usual bluster attempting to distract or run away from the question.

    Funny old thread that nuclear one. Before the cost of Finland`s latest addition to it`s nuclear power plants became known comparisions were being made and speculated on the cost of nuclear, then for some strange reason any comparisons on costs were threatened with thread or even site bans. A strange turn around to me so I left there after giving my reasons, which as far as I recall were not posted and I haven`t been back since.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,212 ✭✭✭Jizique


    Can only imagine how horrific that programme will be



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 524 ✭✭✭Coolcormack1979


    Hope they don’t get many many viewers.utter propaganda.I certainly won’t watch it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,709 ✭✭✭✭charlie14


    Nothing makey-uppey. In fact if anything the figure of €200 Billion for this 37 GW lunacy is being generous. But if you belive differently, as always, you are more than welcome to show yours.



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  • Posts: 6,626 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Just because you deny the reality of anthropogenic climate change, you believe no one should be informed of the reality they face. Fortunately fanatics like you aren't in control



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