Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

To be clear, I have no issue with Israel as a state/country. What happened back in WWII was an an atrocity and while I think more thought could have been put in the initial partition we are where we are and I accept it. Israelis and Palestinians have a right to exist. However lets be clear.

I do not care if Tom, Dick or Harry from any place in world want to avail of the right to return. Thats their right. What is not their right, or Israels right is to avail on that right of return on land that is not Israels, and persecute and evict Palestinians from their homes. And this is whats happening today and over the last number of decades. You maybe uncomfortable with the use of the world 'colonisation' however that is what has been happening. What i find honestly mind boggling, is how given the history of the WWII et al, and given the direct experiences of persecution, how they believe they have the right to inflict that on others as an entitlement.

Israel’s illegal occupation of Palestinian territory, tantamount to ‘settler-colonialism’: UN expert | UN News

'Israel’s occupation is illegal and indistinguishable from a “settler-colonial” situation, which must end, as a pre-condition for Palestinians to exercise their right to self-determination, the UN’s independent expert on the occupied Palestinian territory''

BBC reporting on increasing violence in the West Bank

I'd love to have a crystal ball and look 200 years into the future to see if Israel still exists (or any country for that matter). Will there be fat, tattooed Israeli's dressed as ice-cream sellers banging drums and playing flutes marching down main street Gaza, singing about being up to their knees in Arab blood and the Nakba's over, why don't you go home.

Unkel, do you agree with what he says?

Because Netanyahu has undercut PLO / Fatah at every opportunity he has had since his first stint 25 years ago. He essentially is more responsible for Hamas becoming the preeminent force in Gaza than any individual not in Hamas because he he could not stand to see a unified Palestinian authority possibly succeed

Maybe they can ask her about proportional responses and vengeful civilian massacres.

There was an excellent professor on Prime Time (I think) last night from UCG. He laid out the arguments around IHL, Self defence, Proportionality, Occupation, Hospital attacks and Collective Punishment. Well worth a listen to open minded folks.

No one wants Ethnic cleansing, but an alternative is that people seek safety in the Sinai until Hamas is destroyed. Alas, people want civilians to die rather than seek safety.

The PLO don't have a mandate anymore because its leaders are old and corrupt and follow the mould of Arafat, who talks a good game but is self-interested and self-serving.

When Hamas talk about eradicating Jews from Palestine and the world, what would you call that exactly if not anti-semantic? Pub talk over biscuits?

Not sure what MM is smoking, but the fact it, Hamas and Egypt control the Rafah gates. There are no IDF or Israeli border controls there.

Perhaps the list is what is passed onto Hamas/Qatar in terms of who gets in front of the queue. And of course in the article he said there is no evidence that Irish people in Gaza are being punished by Israel, the most important fact here.

Tell us so, how was National Socialism in Germany defeated?

As long as Hamas want a one state solution, and Israel want a one state solution there will always be this conflict. Equally I could say as long as antisemitism and Islamophobia exist there will always be this conflict. See what I did there??? And before you, like blanche are like 'everyone' wants a two state solution bar Hamas, there are numerous links to state the opposite and frankly these are who he in power with and his promises.

Netanyahu's hard-line new government takes office in Israel - BBC News

''In a coalition deal with the ultranationalist Religious Zionism party he signed last week, Mr Netanyahu agreed to retroactively legalise the outposts. He also promised to annex the West Bank while "choosing the timing and weighing all of the State of Israel's national and international interests". Such a step would be opposed by Israel's Western and Arab allies.Mr Netanyahu's coalition partners reject the idea of a two-state solution to the Israel-Palestinian conflict - the internationally backed formula for peace which envisages an independent Palestinian state in the West Bank alongside Israel, with Jerusalem as their shared capital.''

Bit of a one eyed view of the last few decades of history between the 2 parties, no?

I admit I am not an expert (so hesitate to comment on the messy and complex history on this thread) but I don't recall enthusiasm from Israel under all the Netanyahu govts. (and so from the Israeli public, since they keep voting him into power) for compromises, or working hard on any "peace process" since Oslo.

They think (or thought) they can win, get everything in the end through a gradual salami slicing process while remaining secure from any nasty eruptions of violence due to their advantages in technology/wealth/US + Western backing etc., and don't need to make compromises.

The US (mostly under Republican presidents) has never pushed them since days of Clinton IMO (can it be 30 years ago now?), just blessed everything the Israeli govt. do and so indulged and strengthened that belief.

Where are you getting the 99% figure from?

Link, please.

International Law decreed it.