Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

It's obvious you can't defend your claim when you have to throw out cheap insults like lies and waffle instead of actually defending your argument.

That's the figures from one conflict. How you think this proves your argument is anybody's guess.

Where are the figures from the other conflicts?

It is obvious you haven't read the UN report, or know anything about the figures from the other conflicts.

I asked you where does the UN report support the claims you have made for it?

You were unable to defend your claim with reference to the actual evidence. That's the actual evidence. Not the headline in a media statement.

The evidence does not support the claims you have made for it.

Multiple posters now have pulled you up on the false claims made on the basis of a misleading media statement.

So actually, this is not a case of "said without evidence, dismissed without evidence".

This is a case of, they evidence has been looked at - and not by you - and it does not say what you say it does.

To accuse me of lies on that basis is completely without merit or foundation.

When you don't like the answers you are getting, you denigrate those giving you the answers.

Quite a number of times, in response to these questions, I have linked to the actual extracts of international law. They are actually quite easy to understand. I have stopped linking to them because the same posters are asking the same questions while ignoring the evidence.

To recap on where we are right now. There is no doubt that Hamas has 100% committed war crimes and is continuing to do so, in areas such as keeping civilian hostages, using civilians and civilian facilities as human shields. Their own utterances have confirmed these crimes.

It is also true, that, by and large, Israel has stayed within the confines of international law. There are some questions over their most recent actions, but even the Norweigan government will only go so far as saying that Israel MAY have broken international law. Unlike Hamas, there is no unequivocal evidence that Israel have committed war crimes.

Those commenting on the conflict should always bear in mind those parameters in considering where the balance of good and evil is situated. All of which brings us back to the most important imperative to end the conflict - Hamas should release the hostages and offer up those responsible for the planning and execution of 7/10 to the ICC.

It is as simple as that.

You were to provide them? You made claims about them not being reliable. The claims I shared were made based on that data. The onus is on you to dismantle it so.

One of these may be in error and it's probably the Tanaiste, statement shared by someone else previously, omitting per annum and implying total. Still absolutely horrendous figures that are not demonstrative of proportion, meaning that in 3 weeks they've killed all the children in war normally killed in currently typical year -- globally. The defense of the IDF being, ah yeas they have maybe killed 3600 kids but it's "legit" "proportional" 'trust us bro'

... I'll leave you with this here.

I don't care about Bandwagon Fallacy either.

I didn't accuse you of lies, or call you a liar etc.; absolutely nothing personal, I'm aware we align on so many other topics. However, I objectively demonstrated the falsehoods claimed ie. lie(s).

It's ones persons opinion which has been shared multiple times on here .

Maybe they do sanctions for countries not condemning Israel as well, Ireland made a good choice on the foreign policy front. Hey, maybe Ireland could become a middleman and make a fortune buying all these commodities and sell them on like India does with the oil to Europe.

No just looks like carnage. Where do you make out tunnels and bunkers? JDAMs etc make craters, as was widely pointed out in the analysis of the hospital car park strike the other week.

Thankfully everyday is day closer to Hamas being defeated

With civilian body counts this high and however many billions of dollars in damage has been razed of the people of Gaza, with Bibi supporting Hamas behind the scenes, I think the idea of them being 'defeated' is an overly hopeful one.

IDF have already decided 3700+ kids were just going to become the next class of Hamas fighters... and by bombing them by the dozens at a time, they've turned, I fear, more of their friends into Hamas fighters some day. A self-feeding, self-eating cycle that doesn't need to continue, but the people who can end the cycle don't see it that way.

That's not evidence.

You are just citing the same misrepresented figures. I asked you to support your claim with reference to actual evidence. The real source evidence which are the UN reports. The actual data. All you have are media statements and headlines repeating the same misrepresentation.

The evidence does not support your claim, and you refuse to engage with it.

You haven't read the reports. The media statements are misrepresenting the figures, and you repeat that misrepresentation here.

Nowhere does the UN report present the figures as they are being used in the media now or on this thread. Statement of fact. Either disprove that statement or it proves the claims made do not match the actual evidence.

Nowhere does the UN report linked to in the media statement declare that it is an evidence based assessment of actual civilian deaths. So don't accuse me of lies (and yes, your posts multiple times now used the words lies in direct response) or not making evidence based claims. It is just a smokescreen and has no bite when you refuse to engage with the actual evidence.

On that basis, and your complete inability to relate the actual data to the claims made, they are dismantled.

What about all these elite troops Israel has??

Could they not send them in to eliminate Hamas and make everyone happy without blowing innocent children and adult civilians to bits or are they not as elite as made out to be? Like they went missing on Oct 7th when most needed/

Benjamin Netanyahu, for a start.

The lack of alternative 5th column/regime change support in Gaza for another. The US installs regimes all over the world, Iran-Contra, Mobutu, War on Terror, etc. etc.; in decades, they've not been able to do the same for Hamas? Smells. Clearly, Hamas was the regime change.

So indeed, doesn't need to continue. Neither need to remain in power. We have the tools in the West, the interested parties don't use them. We only get to guess why. The US has supported Bibi the whole time, almost without fail.

I see mangled metal, I drive a jeep. I don't see anything resembling a jeep. This could be anything. It could be an industrial/apartment sized HVAC for all I know, and I've been around a few of them too. Sheet metal has so many applications outside of vehicles. Other images of same view?

Not the brightest of questions . It would be a suicide mission going in on a ground assault first .

Hence why Hamas have camps and tunnels in hospitals , schools , refugee camps etc .

It made then untouchable. Israel felt they had no other choice. Wanted civilians to leave . Hamas wouldn't allow them as they wanted them to die.

Awful situation . Thank god everyday we live in Ireland in 2023.