Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Some real Weimar era stuff there Timberrr

I'd say some european and US cities aren't far away from scenes like this. It really doesn't take much for people to feel emboldened to express their hatred of Jews. It's only going to get worse. How sad that only a few generations after the holocaust, many Jews no longer feel safe in their own countries.

Hundreds of those videos,

Cowards hiding behind kids and skirts

Certainly it is a problem but one can't blame the Israelis for defending themselves and wider humanity by fighting them, not that you are.

They look at things differently from modern Europeans, they believe that their own lives and society have worth and that long term security matters, that society matters.

It's no wonder that the marches against them are so big in Europe.

It's open season and it won't be opposed, there will be concerted action to hold account after though.

Sad truth is that Jews no longer have a future in Western Europe.

The kidnapping of civilians is a war crime that has severe consequences, not only for the victims and their families but also for the legitimacy of the perpetrators. Hamas, by engaging in the abduction and hostage-taking of innocent civilians, undermines its credibility as freedom fighters. Hamas has the right to fight against the occupiers' military, but it does not have the right to target and murder Israeli civilians.

The Israeli military is showing panic here and is trying to destroy Gaza out of bloodlust. The absence of strong international leadership in addressing the situation in Israel is disheartening. Statements alone are insufficient to bring about the necessary change. Israel needs to feel the pressure from world leaders. Pushing Palestinians to leave Gaza has significant consequences, particularly when they have nowhere else to go. This forced displacement not only affects the individuals and families who are uprooted from their homes, but also has wider implications for the region. Jordon and Egypt called this a red line for them.

The situation in Gaza currently poses a strategic challenge for Hamas. If the group was to lose control over the northern areas of Gaza, it may opt to relocate to the southern parts of the region. The consequences of such a development would not only impact the people of Gaza but also have wider implications for the Middle East as a whole. The wiping out of an entire city is an extreme scenario watched on tv that would undoubtedly have far-reaching consequences.

Not sure what your point is. A bit of Islam extremist terrorism, killing a few people either in the USA or in Europe or in Israel never really goes answered. But an unprecedented attack magnitudes bigger, against a formidable power that is not lame nor cowardish (like the USA or Israel), will be punished. Hard.

Numbers don't really come in to it much. And that's from me. I'm a numbers guy normally.

magnitudes bigger

There you go, it's all down to numbers. Do you really think Israel would be bombing Gaza with an unprecedented amount of bombs, if Hamas killed a dozen civilians?

There has been Islamic terrorism in the US and Israel before, but it never led to the war on terror or this current bombing campaign in Gaza. The only difference is the loss of lives.... the number of lives lost.

What made this Hamas attack so different to what had gone before was the sheer scale and savagery of the attack. It was a full on military attack, well planned and executed. It was Israels Sept 11th.

Yes, it was based on the numbers involved. The numbers of attackers and the number of victims. Numbers.....

So when people mention the thousands dead, it's for a reason.

Why people get attacked on this thread mentioning the number of civilians killed in Gaza is troubling. Like their deaths don't matter because Israeli lives matter more. The usual excuses are they are made up figure from Hamas, despite over the years, Hamas figures being accurate and both the UN and Israeli estimates corroborate it. To, oh they voted for Hamas. To oh there's tunnels, Hamas in that apartment building and to the new one, everyone in Gaza is Hamas.

Maybe it's just me but I can't seem to find much coherence in your post. Personally I don't have a lot of trouble accepting the number of people who died in Gaza from the official Hamas figures. It's a tragedy. The people in Gaza did freely and democratically elect Hamas though. Who stated they wanted to kill all jews. Which is what they are finally trying to do. But thankfully it won't work, they won't succeed. They will fail and hopefully they will be exterminated.

In the name of 2977 lives? No idea why you seem so obsessed by numbers. You keep posting the number of people supposedly killed in Gaza as published by Hamas. Ad nauseam.

When you add supposedly, it take away from the not having trouble accepting figures from Hamas.

To repeat what people have said before that Hamas were not elected with a majority in 2006, they were funded by Israel to balance Fatah. Hamas in turn killed off the opposition etc... Half of Gaza now, were too young to vote back in 2006, and less than half of the other half could have potentially voted for Hamas..... and you're a numbers guy?

..

We're innocently standing by

Watching people lose their lives

It seems as if we have no voice

It's time for us to make a choice

Only god should decide

Who will live and who will die

There's nothing that can't be done

If we raise our voice as one

They've gotta hear it from me

They've gotta hear it from you

They've gotta hear it from us

We can't take it

We've already had enough

What options are they being shown which are positive?

+1 ... Trump or whoever decided to withdraw from JCPOA made a very bad decision ... as if it were done to deliberately ruin relations between Iran and the West ... and to aid hardliners to defeat Iran's then moderate govt ... that is exactly what happened ... of course Netanyahu as well as the Saudis favoured this outcome and got it thanks to rookie pres Trump and his hardliner advisors no doubt in the pockets of Netanyahu ...

Americans do need to wake up and stop pursuing stupid policies obo wannabe dictators like Netanyahu and decadent monarchies like Saudi Arabia ... Iran was in a good place and going better places before this stupid decision was made ...

This current mess has a lot to do with leaving JCPOA and following Netanyahu no matter what ... Netanyahu is aligned to very far right parties which is ignored .... they are prob worse than Iran's current hardline Paydari regime if they got the chance ... I feel though all these hardliners .... Likud's pro-Netanyahu factions plus the other even further far right smaller parties in that current Netanyahu coalition ... the pro-Trump Republicans ... Paydari ... all feed off each other .... to the detriments of the moderates in all ...

If a change in govt in the US changes policy regarding agreements then there is no point in Iran or anyone else trusting them ... these agreements should stand and be legally binding with anyone trying to break them removed from office ... that would prevent some clown like Trump being pressurised by other clowns ... breaking these agreements also plays into the hands of Iran's hardliners who say I told you so to Iran's moderates ... and then Iran's women suffer and Iran's economic potential is not realised ... it is time that Trump and those who advised him ... who now prob blame it on Trump and distance themselves when it suits ... to face the consequences of their actions ... deals like JCPOA need to be written and stuck to no matter what freak is in the White House simple as ... Trump will go down as one of the very worst presidents that is for sure .... and Obama as one of the better ones .... Trump cannot come to terms with the fact that his presidency was a failure and that he was a weak and incompetent president ... he will tell you the opposite but it is just another example of his only talent: telling lies ...