Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

So by and large a pro-Palestine/anti-war/ceasefire march. When a media outlet describes that as an anti-Israel march based on some individuals in it, then you know where their bias lands.

It's really all they to fall back on. Huge pro-Palestinian marches, going against the Sunak government and right wing press narrative.....therefore the only explanation must be that the marchers are anti-Semitic, pro-terrorism, pro-Hamas etc.

Agree with this.

I don’t understand how Western leaders don’t see it like this. After 9/11 people backed any action the US deemed necessary. Its different now, the west is completely divided from within. I even find myself half hoping Iran get involved to try and stop the madness in Gaza but I know it’ll make everything so much worse.

What Hamas have done was sick and barbaric and they need to be brought to justice and eradicated. That doesn’t mean we commit more atrocities in trying to do so. The images since the 7th Oct have kept me awake a night, I could only imagine what it’s like living through it.

We need peace, war just brings more war and Israel will never be at peace if they continue like this.

We need peace, war just brings more war and Israel will never be at peace if they continue like this.

As much as I agree with what you say. Israel is unfortunately in territory where none of us would wanted to be in.

They’ve gone way over the top with their retaliation. Hamas need to be eradicated but does anyone really believe even if they wipe Gaza off the map, that it’ll be the end of Hamas?

Israel haven’t helped themselevs with their continued efforts to force Palestinians out of the West Bank.

Israeli tanks and other armour entered Gaza at As siafa and are currently operating 5km inside Gaza using the coast for cover likely heading to Al shati camp

No it isn't. Israel chooses to be in this situation. There is not an existential threat to Israel, Israel is armed to the teeth. Israel has suffered a massacre somewhat like the US did on 9/11. Further massacres can be prevented by proper security measures, and the rationale for further massacres can be dampened by good faith political engagement with a view towards resolving fundamental injustices.

The US's reaction to 9/11 was a disaster. It would have been far better off doing nothing. Rage and revenge against an ideology is not a strategy. It's a recipe for a much greater disaster. It's a game of whack a mole that can never end.

Beyond the people of Gaza and Palestine who are obviously the primary sufferers of Israel's mindless reaction of rage and revenge, it will be Europe and the US who feel the geopolitical brunt of this folly. And any chance of freeing the hostages, is, very sadly, almost certainly gone because of it.

The US and Israel both believe that US and Israeli lives are worth far more than Palestinian lives. The US and Israel expect/ed the world to believe that loss of US and Israeli lives in terrorist attacks necessitated the loss of many more Arab lives in retaliation. The US and Israel believe that when Arab lives are obliterated, it shouldn't mean anything because "Oh well, those Arabs are used to it. They know no better. But we aren't used to our people losing their lives. It's different for us." Arab lives are worth about the same as used toilet paper as far as the US, Europe and Israel are concerned.

Have a look at some of the posters etc.

Thank you. Well said for the most part.

“Some”. Sigh.

Read my post again.

In the west, among politicians and media, it's fear. The "electric fence". You simply don't go near these topics for fear of the backlash. Sayeeda Warsi on Question Time on Thursday night was the only person of prominence I have seen bring it up. It's really only Israel's Haaretz who are prepared to challenge Netanyahu on it.

Netanyahu should be gone and he should be gone weeks ago. He is an integral part of the problem. But the whole of the Israeli right wing are also an integral part of the problem, and they will never go away.

Using my post for this.. doesn't help anyone..

I don't see why anyone (even very pro Israel) would be reluctant to ask if it is true that Israel founded Hamas(or favoured its circumstances)

It is a very interesting claim and I can see why they might have encouraged them at first since the PLO doesn't seem like much of a negotiating partner to me and the religious extremists on opposing sides may well be chummy together.

I have no insights as to whether it was actually true but would have no inclination to welcome the truth being covered up (if indeed there is any substance)

Can anyone provide reliable information on the subject?

Tayto Lover.

Very fair questions.

100 year anniversary there