Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

I wonder about the end game here and I don't see any favourable outcome anytime soon.

The terrorist attack from Hamas will deepen Israeli hatred of Hamas and distrust of Palestinians.

The revenge attacks by Israel will deepen the hatred amongst Palestinians of Israel and will ensure future membership of Hamas and other terrorist groups.

We may well see decades more of this death, destruction and misery on both sides until a peace is found. Not in my lifetime for certain.

When you need to deter aggression nothing says it louder than than 2 carrier strike groups and numerous naval destroyers

No they weren’t.

Also, Hamas is not Palestine.

Well, there's one thing, none of us knows what's the mindset on either side of the conflict. All of us tend to judge it or express our opinions based on completely different experience. Don't think there are posters here, if there are apologies, who actually have any insight of what is happening on both sides there.

This is an utterly disastrous event that will lead to the total discrediting of the west and western liberal democracy as any sort of moral authority. And that is an absolute tragedy, because you really fcuking don't want a world in which people turn to Russia, China and India. But you cannot claim to be a moral authority on anything when you are standing idly by and enabling a genocide by your ally.

Tony Blair destroyed the UK Labour party when he agreed to participate in the war in Iraq. It led to a civil war within that party which persists to this day. This will now happen to Joe Biden and he will lose next year and Trump will return. And what this will lead to is the Tony Blairisation of the whole of the spectrum of what you would broadly term western liberal politics, and that spectrum stretches from old style democratic socialist parties to centre-right parties. People in the west, particularly in the US and UK, and probably Germany and France, will increasingly turn away from liberal democratic politics and institutions like the EU towards batshlt extremists, and what we knew as the west will collapse.

Says you. There have been many debates and papers on that. I agree with many who feel it was a war crime. Dresden has no military significance and should not have been a target. It was a beautiful city and a capital of culture. The utter destruction of Dresden was done to terrify the Germans and it did just that. Hamburg was the same. 20,000 people died in a single night in Operation Gomorra in Hamburg. Revenge for the Blitz without a doubt.

Lets park the war crimes debate for a minute. I think we all know that none of Israel's politicians will ever face war crimes in the ICC. I doubt any Hamas leaders will either. Let's be real about that.

So answer me this - In your opinion, should Israel have any boundaries whatsoever in the bombing and upcoming invasion? Is there any civilian deathtoll that is perhaps unacceptable or do you think Israel can do whatever it wishes over the next few months? Honest question.

Utterly shameful that only 8 EU countries voted in favour of a ceasefire with the majority cowardly abstaining. Orban's Hungary even voted with Israel ffs.

Being moved off their land, being punished for following our religion, being expelled to foreign lands, being starved; I'd say the Irish -British hatred at our peak was as bad as the Palestinian Israeli is now. And I'd say at at the peak of our conflict the hate was much more visceral on the Irish side.

The argument: should Palestinians conduct rallies which chants violence against the oppressor or call for peace.

Longing prefers peace rallies based on his own personal experience during the troubles. My argument would be an understanding of the average Palestinian hatred to the evils of Israel in which they are conducting this war on top of the decades of oppression and human rights violations.

Now your updated on the thread, would you like to add or do you just jump into a discussion with a comment and declare it a thread?

Have telecommunications been restored so people can receive these messages?

And 3000 Palestinian children have been killed thus far by Israeli bombings since the dispicable terrorist attack by Hamas. I doubt that will help change the hatred narrative.

A race to the bottom it seems.