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Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 30,851 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    Doesn't apply in the case of gross misconduct. Immediate dismissal is possible in such circumstances.

    Supporting terrorist violence against your company's owners could well meet the definition of gross misconduct.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,653 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    International humanitarian law came from the 1949 Geneva convention, which has been ratified by 196 states. That's pretty much the opposite of what you are saying that they were written and heavily influenced by the great state powers of the world.

    This is as close as a universal set of rules as can be got. But yes I agree with you, it's far from perfect. Bombing Hamas and killing thousands of innocent civilians including children, is within this law. How very tragic that may be.

    As I said, if you can "win" a war by turning the other cheek, you are on a higher moral ground. Like Ghandi did. But he had a billion Indians vs a few thousand Brits and they weren't surrounded by countries that all have stated they wanted to wipe them off the face of the earth either, that made that strategy a bit more viable 😂



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,331 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    She could really be only dismissed if found to be making offensive comments such as racist or homophobic ones. Criticising the Netanyahu regime (a political opinion basically) doesn't seem near enough grounds for dismissal.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,510 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Maybe they did their due diligence and were happy to sack. Maybe there wasn’t a need to go through what you’re suggesting. It’s not always an exact science when disciplining an employee



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,929 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    Exactly.

    Like they've done themselves no favors in the instant sacking. Moral will be crap in there now and will affect productivity. If they'd have sat down and discussed it could have all been avoided. But that moderate attitude is lost on Arabs and Israeli's... they're very extreme



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,500 ✭✭✭howiya


    South Korea is not subject to a blockade of any sort.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    It's obvious Israel has a right to defend itself under international law and is doing so in accordance with that.


    A ceasefire saves Hamas.


    Why would sunak go along with that. No matter what way it is presented for sale.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,929 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    You both could be correct.

    I still think it's for the WRC/Courts. And given this is Ireland I would guess that WIX will lose.



  • Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭ Faith Steep Comic


    “would suggest”

    You’re trying to guess my intentions here. Never mentioned anything about the border so am not bothered about it. The Hamas run ministry of health releases casualty figures for Gaza. I’d like to see a 3rd party figure for these if possible.

    “What would be sufficient? UN / Human Rights Watch Amnesty International?”

    If they were available, It would be interesting to see them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,606 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Well at least you are consistent. Personally , in this hypothetical, I believe the Israeli employee should not be sacked. It's a dangerous road to go down if people can be sacked for expressing their political views.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,522 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    Going by the Independent it wasn't instant, she got told to stop and then kept going with more posts.

    It's called bringing a company into disrepute, if your boss wakes up to an inbox full of complaints from something you've done in a very public way you're getting fired.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Danzy


    They might lose but they'll probably not mind either way. They also have to think of the safety and well being of their Jewish employees and protect them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 569 ✭✭✭Long Sean Silver


    every time Israel is attacked, they claim it's another Holocaust. they then use that to justify the murdering of innocent Palestinian children.

    the attack of Oct attack by Hamas was horrific and barbaric, but it was NOT a holocaust. such misuse of language is extremely unhelpful.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,929 ✭✭✭Beta Ray Bill


    If true, well then the process was followed and the dismissal is legitimate.

    Kind of strange in terms of morals isn't it? Like if I fully believed in X and my employer fully believed in Y, and Y and X are incompatible and seek to destroy each other, then why would I work for someone that believes so much in Y?

    I don't get it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,510 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Well, that is why people need to be careful and considerate as regards where and how they express themselves.

    We can't hide behind this "political views" for every case of where someone makes claims. I can say what I like because these are my "political views." That is a nonsense

    I think it was mentioned that Courtney hadn't one mention of the Hamas butchery during her political commentary in slating Israel. Not a whiff of compassion/condemnation for the October 7 massacre; she was so keen to jump on the Israel bashing bandwagon, that the October 7 massacre slipped her mind. And when I consider this, it is why I believe that she doesn't give a fiddlers about the situation, really.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,510 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    Exactly. She was (in their mind, and I'd agree) a threat to their company....had to be sacked.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,522 ✭✭✭✭Varik


    Seen a recent enough WRC ruling where a employee did something naughty in the bathroom of another business he got arrested and charged but not yet convicted and it was reported in the papers.

    Employer fires him, he goes to WRC and loses. You don't have to have done anything bad or illegal just get your name out there in a negative way.

    And then there's the case of a Irish rail working maiming 2 women in a drunken car accident getting sent to prison, fired while in prison and somehow wining at the WRC as they took too long to fire him.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,569 ✭✭✭Cordell


    It depends where and when and how you're expressing those political opinions. For example many of my political opinions that I can freely express in most places will absolutely get me sacked if I express them in my place of work or on social media accounts that are linked with my professional life - that is where my account also links me with my employer's by having my place of work and my role visible in the profile. It may be a dangerous road but we're not starting on it now, but we're already a long way in. And she was supposed to know all this.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,718 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    It's only "true" to someone who's entrenched in a particular side and wants to portray a falsehood, or is too lazy to briefly google something.

    This is the flag of Hamas...

    1.png


    This is the flag of Palestine...

    2.png


    And the above has been pointed out to you before.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 837 ✭✭✭Sir_Name


    From Amnesty

    image.png

    UN - who actually have people on the ground within Gaza

    Latest: Occupied Palestinian Territory/Israel | OHCHR


    Anyone with a pair of eyes on their head, looking at social media, the news reports with the levels of destruction/pictures of injured would reasonably ascertain that +1,000 people have died within Gaza.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 58,510 ✭✭✭✭walshb


    This is just it...one could agree 100 percent with Courtney's views here, but not agree that she can openly and publicly state these views while working for an Israeli company, and expect no comeback.

    It's about where and how one expresses their opinions and views, and that there can be consequences involved.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    Nope, that's an Islamic shaddah it's not Hamas,it's seen all across the middle east and further afield sometimes in white,some times in green and sometimes in black,

    It's not the flag of hamas,for the most part the experts say Hamas has no actual flag , but then again that's Wikipedia for you



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,718 ✭✭✭✭Tony EH


    As much as you keep trying to squirm out of your lie, it'll still be a lie.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    You quoted Amnesty lol .

    Yeah unfortunately the UN are not counting casualties dead or otherwise they are reporting according to hamas what they are saying is the casualties



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 837 ✭✭✭Sir_Name


    Direct question - yes/no answer will suffice. Do you think +1,000 people have died in Gaza since Oct 7th.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,096 ✭✭✭Large bottle small glass


    The limitation on Israeli deaths is down to the limitation of Hamas's technology (and that of their brethren) not their ideology.

    Hamas want Islamic law on all middle east land and all Jews/Christians removed and will do whatever it takes to do.

    If they had the means it would be a holocaust cheered on a supported by a lot of the middle east and indeed Western universities and the like( on the basis of pre Israeli strike back demonstrations in London and elsewhere).



  • Posts: 1,251 ✭✭✭ Faith Steep Comic


    “Looking at social media”

    The last place i’d be looking for accuracy. Depends on who’s posting the info at the end of the day doesn’t it.

    ”the news reports”

    Again, where are they sourcing their info from? If it’s from Hamas only, you need to gauge for yourself how accurate are their figures.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 837 ✭✭✭Sir_Name


    At this stage you are being deliberately obtuse. If I was sprouting numbers like 10k+ maybe just maybe I would have conceded, however social media shows directly and I am not talking about reporting, its real time visible dead bodies injured parties. I am actually shocked that I even am explaining this.

    'If this was a school shooter, hiding out in a classroom when would it ever be morally acceptable to bomb the entire school.' Answer. Never.

    However this is whats happening to Palestinian people. For the love of god 50% of their population is under 18. That means 50% of the population were not in existence when Hamas (with the help of Israel initially might I add) were elected. That's not included an of the people who would even have been too young to vote. And people on here essentially cheering Israel on, I am ashamed of you all who are. I don't have all the answers, or solutions to this but what I do know this is wrong and this is not the solution.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,569 ✭✭✭Cordell


    Until something changes Palestinian army and government is Hamas, voted in by about half of them while the other half voted a slightly less radical version of Hamas, stemming from the same organisation and movement seeking the dissolution of Israel and all Jews from that territory. The fact that these factions were or still are at war is of no consequence, its just their power struggle.



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  • Moderators, Arts Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 11,027 Mod ✭✭✭✭Hellrazer


    Not sure supporting terrorist violence against your companys owners could be construed as gross misconduct.

    The following is not an exhaustive list and it comes with the warning that every case is different. Even when you believe that the employee may be guilty of an act of gross misconduct similar to one of the examples below, you still have to follow the correct procedures before dismissing them.

    Sexual harassment

    Deliberate fraud

    Sleeping at work

    Fighting, physical assault, abuse

    Unable to carry out work tasks due to the consumption of drus or intoxicants

    Possession of illicit drugs, or their supply or use

    Making a false allegation of injury in the workplace

    Deliberate refusal to carry out legitimate instructions

    Deliberate damage to company property

    Deliberately poor work performance

    Breach of company confidentiality policy by sharing sensitive information with competitors.

    Stealing

    Inappropriate behaviour towards clients

    Use of company property without obtaining prior approval

    Bullying, harassment,victimisation, breach of anti-discrimination policy

    Accepting or offering bribes

    indecent behaviour

    major breaches of health and safety rules

     

    The test for gross misconduct is “Would it be reasonable to consider this action to be a serious breach of acceptable workplace behaviour.”


    From employment rights^^^^^ Not sure which one of these it falls into.If she posted it from a work pc during working hours they could get her for "use of company property without prior approval"

    Thats about the only one I could see carrying some weight.

    Depends on the circumstances though - if she posted it on her own time, on her own pc then theyre out of luck.



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