2023 RWC Buildup, Squads, Fixtures 'etc'

ersatz · 22-10-2023 10:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121269774#Comment_121269774

I'm not a fan of the anti scrum stuff but I think penalties for many of the technical fouls, and more significantly for going backwards, are mad. Free kick yes but the argument that dominant scrums are guaranteed penalties and points is not how scrums are supposed to function in the game is accurate. Laws are adjusted all the time to make the game more interesting for spectators, this is a classic example of where such a law change would do exactly that.

LuckyLloyd · 22-10-2023 10:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121270942#Comment_121270942

Better than the World Cup? Nah.

But I know you opinion is shared by many “rugby” people. Died in the wool NH “rugby” people never wanted it in the first place.

Yeah_Right · 22-10-2023 10:14PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121272552#Comment_121272552

You should follow your own advice.

joseywhales · 22-10-2023 10:16PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121272652#Comment_121272652

The fear I have with free kicks is that we could have 30 minutes of scrum with one team just dominating the other. What is the benefit of a free kick? I might aswell just scrum again.

eagle eye · 22-10-2023 10:21PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121272602#Comment_121272602

I didn't get it wrong.

It's just that you have no clue and aren't willing to listen and learn.

Yeah_Right · 22-10-2023 10:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121271752#Comment_121271752

I'd go NZ 2015 - one of the greatest teams of all time.

NZ 1987 - undefeated for the next 3 years.

Aus 1999 - such a good side with some phenomenal players.

SA 2007 - had an "easy" world cup but were very strong the next couple of years.

Eng 2003 - such a powerful team with a win at all costs mentality.

NZ 2011 - good side that went on to greatness.

Aus 1991 - Fantastc team that set up a strong decade for the Wallabies.

SA 1995 - good team but it took food poisoning for them to win in extra time.

SA 2019 - easy world cup run and did nothing in the years before or after.

ersatz · 22-10-2023 10:26PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121271750#Comment_121271750

Would be an absolute classic of Bongi is punished by an organization led by a guy who LED the illegal Lions apartheid tour of SA in 1980.

ersatz · 22-10-2023 10:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121272670#Comment_121272670

Yeah, its a risk but what's happening now is that dominant scrums create a very uninteresting rugby match because penalties get you to the lineout maul and a try or teams racking up 3 pointers and no tries. Its a particular scourge on the WC and is just as bad as teams winning matches by 50 or 60 points. Social death for the game.

Williams made the point that hookers are more likely to score tries than centres!

AbusesToilets · 22-10-2023 10:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121272701#Comment_121272701

The issue for me is the variability and inconsistency of how the scrum gets reffed. A common theme in rugby. Porter got blown up by Barnes, another ref might have seen him as dominating his opponent. Genge got done for a pivotal penalty yesterday, when the SA LH was driving across also.

The game is fucked because teams cheat every which way they can. Hard to think of another sport with that much deliberate cheating happens

eagle eye · 22-10-2023 11:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121272686#Comment_121272686

If 2023 wins the World Cup they are right up there as they have four consecutive Rugby Championships.

ersatz · 23-10-2023 12:05AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121272768#Comment_121272768

Yeah, and without dedicating TMO time to almost every scrum that stuff is almost impossible to effectively police. They stopped policing the feed so as to get the ball back out more quickly but it just pushed the problem downstream, it hasn't worked. The incentive to piss about and super power the scrum is because it generates penalties. Take the penalties away for anything except dangerous play or or fouling, and remove the insane situation where teams give up points almost automatically for technical fouls (which most spectators can't even identify), or for being over powered in the scrum. Imagine if dominant tackles were an automatic penalty. Some of the new laws have produced better more compelling rugby (50/22) but others have introduced new layers of boredom for most people.

AbusesToilets · 23-10-2023 01:05AM

Perhaps a rule that says you can't kick at goal from a scrum penalty might make a difference? Marginal, but would keep it in the spirit of it being a means to restart play, rather than a point generation mechanism?

I love a good scrum, it's just shrinking rare to see one.

pickarooney · 23-10-2023 05:55AM

How about being able to call uncontested scrums on your own put in? Could props live with the shame in exchange for getting their own ball back?

There's a lot to be said for scrum dominance but effectively getting the ball back and advancing the length of a penalty kick up the pitch when you've knocked on doesn't seem right.

pixelburp · 23-10-2023 06:32AM

Is straight feeding of the scrum still a rule, or was it ever, cos I almost never see a scrum fed in straight down the middle anymore; yet I wouldn't be a rules wonk to know if that's just not refereed anymore - or was removed. Scrum halves just roll the ball straight into their front row's legs now. Apologies for the naivity. That alone seems to have robbed scrums of any sense of contest; unless you get pinged in the engagement itself it's a free attack platform now.

randomname2005 · 23-10-2023 07:37AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121272982#Comment_121272982

I think the last time I saw it enforced was a world cup match back in Japan.

FrancieBrady · 23-10-2023 07:39AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121272982#Comment_121272982

Infuriating alright. Always fed in under the legs of your own team.

pixelburp · 23-10-2023 07:46AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273066#Comment_121273066

So it is something that should be enforced? It's weird referees just stopped worrying about it 'cos I'm old enough to remember that was something they'd stop a scrum for - and it'd be a pivotal moment to win a scrum against the head. Perhaps there's so much technicality to policing the thing, it's just too small potatoes to worry.

Equally, you don't see sides trying to play scrum footsie either - so as said maybe it's just impossible to do that anymore while you're focused on the binding.

squidgainz · 23-10-2023 07:47AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121271026#Comment_121271026

Yeah other than his first line , all rubbish.

Jacovs · 23-10-2023 08:00AM

I seem to remember Argentina being penalised for not putting it in straight in the scrum against New Zealand.

And didnt SA win an England scrum by pushing them back over the ball?

OldRio · 23-10-2023 08:02AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121272768#Comment_121272768

He had his knee down before any pivot. The evidence is out there

FrancieBrady · 23-10-2023 08:09AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273124#Comment_121273124

Correct.

FrancieBrady · 23-10-2023 08:10AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273119#Comment_121273119

Exceptions that prove the rule, to me.

Jacovs · 23-10-2023 08:14AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273151#Comment_121273151

I agree, just pointing out it does happen, even if very rare.

Most times the ball is put in nearly at the feet of the locks. Would be too energy draining to contest every scrum fully, I would imagine.

Nermal · 23-10-2023 08:18AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273124#Comment_121273124

He reset on previous scrums when knees were down before the ball went in.

Referees are deciding tight games, often in error. South Africa have benefitted from this two weeks in a row.

This isn't a problem on the playground, or in amateur sport. It's a problem now though.

irelandrover · 23-10-2023 08:20AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273145#Comment_121273145

There is definitely a pivot already in that image.

JRant · 23-10-2023 09:31AM

Is there an argument to be made to move the WC to a more NH friendly time, say in May rather than October. It seems like an incredible advantage to SH teams that they get to come off a full series of internationals and straight into a WC while NH teams are coming off preseason?

It's probably been done to death already but interested to find out what the rationale is.

Podge_irl · 23-10-2023 09:35AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273405#Comment_121273405

It's an interesting one. A decade ago I would have said the SH teams keep winning cause they're just better. I'm less convinced that is true now.

JRant · 23-10-2023 09:48AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273417#Comment_121273417

Yeah, the gap has closed a lot over theast decade. It does seem like a huge advantage in this day and age. Especially when new trialing new procedures, which usually get brought in to the SH first just before a WC. Like the lack of TMO involvement has been a big shift for NH audiences and led to some "questionable" decisions.

I don't know, maybe it's nothing and we should just keep going as is.

Jacovs · 23-10-2023 10:07AM

Moving it to May would impact the business end of URC, ERC Cup, EPCR Challenge Cup, Super Rugby, Premiership Rugby, and probably lots of other competitions in other countries.

I am sure it can be done (if everyone can agree), they would just have to announce it early enough and move all the schedules accordingly the year before, or take a break in all competitions and continue them after the World Cup, and move all the following year's schedules.

Yeah_Right · 23-10-2023 10:12AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121273405#Comment_121273405

I think the biggest obstacle with moving it to May would be the French and English club competitions. May is when they have their playoffs. If the RWC was to start in May, the playoffs would have to be in March. That means the season would have to start early August or July. Unless the unions were willing to make sacrifices around the 6 Nations and/or the AIs.

Don't get me wrong, I think it's a valid discussion to be had. And actually adds more weight to the idea of a global calendar.

2023 RWC Buildup, Squads, Fixtures 'etc'

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