Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

Do you believe the Israeli Defence Figure of 1500 Hamas fighters bodies recovered by the morning of 10th October to be accurate?

A day later the IDF “bodies of 1500 Hamas fighters” had become an estimated 1000 Palestinian gunmen.

The force that attacked Israel on October 7th, was, according to the IDF, 2500 strong.

Was it not a disastrously unsuccessful surprise attack on civilians if more damage has been inflicted on the attackers than on those whom they have attacked?

Let me correct myself, White House admitted as much. Mea culpa all around.

100%. And you'd have to question how these attacks got such a head of steam. One of the main breeches was part of the wall being knocked by a loading shovel and hamas streaming through. In one of the most fortified and guarded sections of land on earth? With the backdrop of Netanyahus attempts to rewrite the constitution and the pushback he was receiving there's questions to be asked.

Imagine if Israel had waited a week to react. Hypothetical, I know. Would there have been mass demonstrations condemning the slaughter of Israelis by Hamas and shouting for the end of Hamas?

I doubt it. There might've been a few smaller protests is all.

Keep making excuses for Israel murdering innocent babies.

No they did not...

Your welcome to provide any evidence to support your claim

False.

NY Times has a breakdown of the aide Biden will ask for:

$14bn - Israel

$60bn - Ukraine

The article doesn't mention anywhere else, but Taiwan support seems likely

Sigh. Boards and linking to websites. Here's the text from (https://archive.ph/vit5y)

President Biden tied together Israel and Ukraine, saying that both face threats of annihilation by tyrants and terrorists, as he made his case for providing aid to the countries in a rare Oval Office address on Thursday.

Providing the two U.S. allies with military and economic aid is in the interest of global stability and national security, he said. Mr. Biden is expected to request $14 billion in military and security aid to Israel for its war against Hamas and $60 billion for Ukraine to fight Russia, according to people familiar with the administration’s plans.

With the humanitarian situation growing more desperate in Gaza, the Rafah crossing between the territory and Egypt still hadn’t opened to evacuees and aid by Friday morning. Diplomats familiar with back-channel talks were pessimistic about it opening at all that day. There are still disagreements between Egypt and Israel on issues including how to institute a regular schedule of aid convoys, whether to allow in fuel and how to screen the convoys for arms.

The territory had already been living under a 16-year blockade by Israel and Egypt when Israel responded to the Hamas attack that killed 1,400 people this month with airstrikes and a “complete siege” of the enclave. Now, nearly half of the more than two million people living in Gaza have been displaced, according to the United Nations, and essential supplies like food and fuel are running out.

Previous agreements to provide aid have fallen through, but Mr. Biden said Israel and Egypt had agreed to let through trucks full of food, water and medicine that are stationed in Egypt.

On Israel’s northern border with Lebanon, Israel and Hezbollah, Hamas’s Iranian-backed ally, continued to trade fire amid fears that the war could expand. A U.S. warship on Thursday shot down three cruise missiles and several drones launched from Yemen that the Pentagon said might have been headed toward Israel.

American intelligence agencies have assessed that an explosion at a Gaza hospital on Tuesday killed 100 to 300 people, a more conservative estimate than that given by the health ministry run by Hamas, and that the hospital was lightly damaged, according to an unclassified report drafted by U.S. intelligence agencies on Wednesday.

Other developments:

Israel’s military said it had been in contact with the families of 203 people taken hostage, raising the number of people believed to be held in Gaza. The military also said that it had caught a Hamas gunman trying to return to Gaza, underscoring the possibility that attackers were still in Israel.

Satellite imagery shows that hundreds of Israeli tanks and armored vehicles have gathered about four miles north of the Erez Crossing into northern Gaza, in preparation for a potential ground invasion.

Gaza health officials said at a news conference that at least 3,785 people had been killed and more than 12,000 injured in the enclave since Oct. 7. The figures are believed to include casualties from the hospital explosion in Gaza City. Hamas and Israel blame each other for that blast, which prompted sporadic protests in Europe and in some Arab nations.

A leader of Hamas says that not all of the Israeli hostages who were taken to Gaza are being held by the group, a claim that will most likely complicate negotiations for their release.

Show less

They are certainly mass murdering scum, but cowardly? No. You are confusing cowardice with brutality. It's part of the problem and one of the biggest reasons the Israeli regime have not started their ground invasion.

Hamas fighters and in particular Hezbollah fighters would probably be the 2 most effective urban fighting groups on the planet.

That said Israeli special forces would be up there too.

But the problem is he will send in the reservists, the attrition rate will be high and the optics of the returning body bags will further turn the Israeli people against Bibi and his regime and not just in Israel.

They might destroy the tunnels and ammo dumps of Hamas. They might kill all the Hamas leadership. Heck, the might even kill or capture all the Hamas foot soldiers. More power to them.

But - as we saw in Afghanisatan - they can't destroy the idea (sick and perverted version of Islam though it is).

People need to remember that the main reason Israel is doing this isn't military. Hamas is not an existential military threat.

It's political. And there are two main constituencies that matter - Israeli citizens and Israel's enemies.

The message to the first is 'we are stronger than our enemies and we will avenge our dead'. (the other message is 'I, Bibi, am the only one who can protect you. So forget all that talk about locking me up for my crimes' - pure opportunism on his behalf)

The message to the second is 'if you ever attack us, we will respond with overwhelming force and we don't really care about any collateral damage. Hama rules apply.' This message goes out to Iran and, to a lesser extent, Syria.

The strategy is clear, and has actually been telegraphed by the Israeli regime.

The border will be moved North to South, anyone north of the river will be slaughtered or interned.

Savage amounts of pressure will be put on Egypt to set up a refugee camp on their border and allow the Palestinians through.

Gaza will become a smaller enclave surrounded by a demilitarised zone where the people will be dehumanised further until they have no choice but to leave. The land grabbing and slaughter will continue in the West Bank probably at more pace and Bibi gets to have his legacy.

The idea this is about destroying Hamas, a group Bibi used as an asset is as remedial as it is illogical.

Of course none of that can happen unless Biden approves it, Joe and his administration will need to weigh up how much votes they will lose by actively financing ethnic cleansing. Also the very real possibility that other groups kick off.

I put it at 50/50.