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Hamas strike on Israel - mod warning in OP updated 19/10/23

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,279 ✭✭✭crusd




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,313 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    I think its safe to say right now that the evidence is pointing out that it was not an IDF strike.

    Do you have any evidence of the contrary apart from Hamas's statements?


    Remember, Hamas denied the face that they killed children in their own attack?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,118 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    In a way I don't think it really matters what actually happened. Each side will believe their version regardless of whatever evidence is presented.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning


    This is the way

    a million people marching in open under cameras demanding end to this madness, release of prisoners and hanging of terrorist scum

    would end this very quick, that’s how the Berlin Wall fell people marched en masse and the whole bullshit system that oppressed them fell apart overnight



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,313 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    I agree, this will take a bit more time, but it's a fairly significant development. Marry that with what Biden said. The IDF have released a lot of information about this strike.


    What is more concerning though is the fact that many people here, in news departments and elsewhere swallowed the Hamas point of view straight off the bat, without any investigation done by themselves.


    Egg on face for many..



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,569 ✭✭✭Cordell


    No, it's actually Israel and Hamas. Most posts here regardless of the side they support use these two terms to designate the sides. So it has became so normalized that even Israel supporters are doing it.

    Look at the title, it's Hamas strike on Israel.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    On This thread they don't,the IDF is actually rarely mentioned it's Palestinians or Zionists,

    I stick to Israelis,Gazans and hamas terrorist



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,678 ✭✭✭Multipass


    Hamas killed innocent civilians by their careless military actions?

    Are you from this planet?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭SharkMX


    30 year military expert my hole. As my granny used to say - "self praise is no praise".

    Why are the windows of the cars still intact after an explosion big enough to kill 500 people in buildings further away than the cars. The cars havent even moved either after the explosion. Imagine a 30 year military expert not asking that question.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    I have seen many images throughout social media of the attack and its aftermath. It comes nowhere near close to the number of alleged victims. This is when you compare to what we have seen with other attacks. The scale of the attack becomes obvious.

    But in this case, all we have to go by is the word of the Hamas spokesperson which doesn't appear, on the face of it, to stand anywhere near close to scrutiny.

    I'm not sure how they counted that many bodies in the space of 10-minutes of the attack, either.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,042 ✭✭✭✭Beechwoodspark


    This would be a good start from the Gazans. Hopefully israel would engage in negotiations if the people:

    hand over the terrorists

    hand over the hostages

    declare their wish to participate in ceasefire talks



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,338 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    The Netanyahu regime has spent the last 10 days denying committing any war crimes in Gaza, when evidence would suggest they have killed a couple of thousand civilians in that period.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,313 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    One also has to look at it this way.


    Who stands to benefit from this strike?

    Israel or Hamas?

    Hamas of course.

    Why would Israel bomb a hospital at the same time that Biden is in the air, en route to the region?

    OK, maybe it was a mistake, but where is the crater that is consistent with a JDAM bomb that Israel has been using?



    We saw the reaction in the wider region when Hamas put out their propaganda.

    How did they establish within an hour that 500 people had died? This normally takes many many hours to decipher.


    What Hamas want, are incidents like this, where the wider world will put international pressure on Israel to stand down, where Hamas remain in control of Gaza and the whole cycle can start again in a few months/years...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,590 ✭✭✭McFly85


    It’s naive in the extreme to expect ordinary Palestinians to rise up against Hamas and essentially side with the people who cause significant destruction and death on their land in retaliation.

    If Israel want Palestinians to recognise Hamas as the common enemy, they’re going to need up treat these people as friends - which would mean a serious change in tactics, starting with stopping indiscriminate bombing of Gaza.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,229 ✭✭✭Longing


    @JamesCleverly

    Last night, too many jumped to conclusions around the tragic loss of life at Al Ahli hospital.

    Getting this wrong would put even more lives at risk.

    Wait for the facts, report them clearly and accurately.

    Cool heads must prevail.


    The most sensible tweet I have seen since the accident.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Danzy




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 52 ✭✭Hummingbird Project


    You’ve completely misunderstood my point. I’m not saying ireland is like israel in using terror as a tactic. I’m saying those that defend the terrorism of the IRA and condemning Hamas terrorism now are completely hypocrites and they know they’re contradicting themselves now. The problem with a hypcrite is if you tell me a lie now, how do i know you won’t tell me a lie in the future again?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,606 ✭✭✭✭nacho libre


    Israel have lied in the past about not being responsible for killing civilians. You probably won’t admit it but they have. We should be sceptical of their denials rather than immediately last night believing it wasn't them. However I am leaning now towards the possibility that the IDF is actually telling the truth on this one, because for 500 people to have died you would expect to see videos of the hospital building being levelled or at least severely damaged. As I said previously even if Israel came up with 100 percent proof it was not them who bombed the hospital, alot of people in the Arab world would say it was all fabricated.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    Defence and Security analyst Michael Clarke (of Sky News) believes that, on balance of probability, it seems Palestinian Islamic Jihad is more likely to be responsible for this attack.

    Michael Clarke told Sky News that while many nations in the Middle East have blamed Israel, the "reality is probably the opposite - but we're only dealing with probability here".

    The balance of probability points to Israeli claims being true - that the Palestinian Islamic Jihad misfired a rocket, he said.

    When pressed, he put the probability at 60-70%.




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,313 ✭✭✭✭markodaly




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,457 ✭✭✭SharkMX


    Yes he did. They were even posted in this thread pages before his. He declared himself an authority on the subject and then proceeded to show how smart he was by selectively choosing evidence to suit his theory and ignoring the rest. Classic baffle them with bullshit post.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,065 ✭✭✭✭Danzy




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,950 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Anyone claiming either side has not & will not continue kill innocent people are of there rocker,

    Hamas done it last week & You can not bomb like Israel have without killing hundred if not thousands of innocent people ,



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,313 ✭✭✭✭markodaly




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,271 ✭✭✭brickster69


    No it is exactly 1 hour off to the second. One hour later to the second no bomb hit the hospital meaning the CCTV was off by exactly an hour.

    "if you get on the wrong train, get off at the nearest station, the longer it takes you to get off, the more expensive the return trip will be."



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 843 ✭✭✭m2_browning


    Well then they can sit there and play the victim card instead of actually doing something to distance themselves from Hamas and end this madness.

    You can bet if Palestinians March for peace and handover of prisoners and terrorists then enormous pressure would be put on Israel from everyone to deal with them and end this.

    At end of day Israel want to crush Hamas not eradicate Palestinians despite what some of the anti semitic nutcases here who frequent conspiracy theory subforum and parrot Russian propaganda say



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,832 ✭✭✭Sudden Valley


    Even the IDF are saying its not Hamas, its Islamic Jihad a different militant group in Gaza.

    Israel as a State has one army the IDF which it controls. The Palestine are made up of different factions Hamas is one, and hasn't been elected as part of one part of Palestine for nearly 20 years. So Palestine didn't do this a faction within Palestine did it. If you still think this is a double standard then I cant help you.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,954 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    This quote from the wire comes to mind with regards all the claims and counter claims going on:

    "I mean, ****, it's what war is, you know? Once you in it, you in it. If it's a lie, then we fight on that lie. But we gotta fight."

    Facts don't matter at this stage people will belief what they want to justify whatever they want.

    🙈🙉🙊



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,422 ✭✭✭Snooker Loopy


    It seems clear to me that Israel didn't do this particular bombing.

    In one sense truth doesn't matter, because too many people will stick to a narrative even if proven wrong, but in another sense truth very much matters.

    To be honest I'm glad that it appears Israel were not responsible, because the consequences if it had been were unthinkable.



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