2023 RWC Buildup, Squads, Fixtures 'etc'

Jacovs · 02-10-2023 08:45AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183771#Comment_121183771

Ah I'd humour them the once.

gameoverdude · 02-10-2023 08:56AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183732#Comment_121183732

I meant hoping for that result.

Irelands management and players will be looking to win.

Although it would be a bit humorous.

Jacovs · 02-10-2023 09:07AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183839#Comment_121183839

I wont be hoping for that, and wouldnt find it funny, but I know what you mean, from a non-SA perspective.

Especially with my Irish wife, and my Irish/SA 7 year old daughter choosing to wear an Irish rugby shirt to school on Bok Friday when they are supposed to be wearing Springbok clothes to school. I'd never hear the end of it.

And I would find it that much harder to support Ireland the rest of the way if they colluded to knock SA out on purpose.

pixelburp · 02-10-2023 09:08AM

Bizarre segue about Scotland game; Ireland will aim to win and strangle the Scots outright. I don't doubt they'll push us, perhaps even more than the Boks did... but I don't anticipate this game being a problem, ultimately.

As to the broader worry for a 24 team competition: worth thinking on that in that expanded tournament, Scotland would be also playing for qualification into the Round of 16 as one of the best 3rd placed teams. IE, more Tier 1 nation match-ups.

You can be sure all those perennial 3rd place finishers will vote for the expanded tournament for their own continued participation in an otherwise abbreviated WC

Ben Bailey · 02-10-2023 09:45AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183671#Comment_121183671

Of course, what NZ are praying for .... FYP

gameoverdude · 02-10-2023 09:59AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183869#Comment_121183869

Your daughter sounds cool! Piss daddy off.

Be no collusion with this Irish team. We want to trounce Scotland regardless od qf opponents.

TheRona · 02-10-2023 10:00AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184002#Comment_121184002

Ah na, NZ wouldn't care who they meet in the quarter. It would just be funny to see SA get kicked out after all their misguided confidence and ridiculous 'innovations' and mind games.

Jacovs · 02-10-2023 10:09AM

Mapimpi out of the world cup with a facial fracture. Which the referee didnt deem to meet the yellow card threshold. But he had to be talked down from giving Etzebeth a yellow.

Wonder if they will bring Am over. We have plenty of cover at centre and wings, so may not be necessary.

gameoverdude · 02-10-2023 10:14AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184109#Comment_121184109

Some weird decisions in that match.

But I don't think severity of injury should be included in decisions. That's an impossible task.

eagle eye · 02-10-2023 10:36AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121182034#Comment_121182034

That would be a great idea. I'm surprised they haven't thought about it.

Podge_irl · 02-10-2023 10:42AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121182892#Comment_121182892

It's not remotely agreed. Two of their penalty attempts came off the back of prior missed kicks and their try came from the missed kick off the crossbar. Just adding up their missed points is both ridiculously reductive but also just plain wrong.

eagle eye · 02-10-2023 10:45AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184224#Comment_121184224

Hang on, so you are saying that if they scored two of those missed penalties that Ireland would still have won?

pixelburp · 02-10-2023 10:49AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184232#Comment_121184232

It's an irrelevant question because if those kicks were made, it changed the shape of the game - we can't know how Ireland would have responded. We might still have won given that our gameplan would/might have changed to reflect the points scored by SA. It's all "if my granny had wheels" territory cos it doesn't say anything except apply arbitrary logic without applying context to follow suit.

Podge_irl · 02-10-2023 10:52AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184232#Comment_121184232

Well they wouldn't have scored their try so yeah.

It's obviously a stupid argument either way. Outside of a last minute kick to win it's always a stupid argument.

Podge_irl · 02-10-2023 10:53AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183756#Comment_121183756

Georgia beat Wales the last time they played a year ago. I suspect they are unlikely to repeat, but it's not a "foregone conclusion".

pickarooney · 02-10-2023 11:38AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184109#Comment_121184109

Was that the one where the defender was basically on his knees and Mapimpi charged headlong into him? If so, it was the first sensible decision I've seen. No shade on Mapimpi, everyone is encouraged to carry like that, but it's about time we stopped expecting players to magically dematerialise out of the way.

Etzebeth only being a penalty was the second sensible decision. Absolutely nothing in that, even if you want to forensically examine the contact area and height off the ground.

Jacovs · 02-10-2023 11:58AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184444#Comment_121184444

Wont argue with that, I think both correct too. Just the referee didnt initially.

We seem to get a lot more replays where foul play is suspected, compared to replays when tries are scored. You just hear the TMO and referee talking in the background while the player lines up for the conversion.

legend99 · 02-10-2023 12:49PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184199#Comment_121184199

Traditionally rugby has this in a lot of competitions - Bowl, Shield, Plate on top of the main Cup. Even extends to the 7s series where all teams continue to play out for something.

If you were doing, I think all teams should play on. If you had 5 team groups as now, leave 1/2 into main cup quarters; 3/4 into the Shield quarters; put fifth place in Bowl semis.

AbusesToilets · 02-10-2023 12:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184693#Comment_121184693

I'm surprised that this hasn't happened already. Could sell so much more advertising and tickets. No brainer

pixelburp · 02-10-2023 12:59PM

IIRC the Rugby Europe Championship has play offs as well, all the way down to 7th Vs 8th (Belgium v Poland, for anyone curious lol); the World Cup is a bit of an outlier structurally but then maybe it just comes down to simple cost. Play offs and "shield" competitions means more outlay to to spend on host stadia, facilities, staff, etc etc.

Honestly the more I've thought about it, the more the 24 team expansion will be the best of both worlds here. Fewer lopsided games in the pools and more meaningful clashes, while giving the traditional 3rd placed teams something proper to play for - a place in the knockout stages. I don't think it'll be the disaster some claim.

legend99 · 02-10-2023 01:07PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184755#Comment_121184755

Assume cost must be part of it? How much would hosting all those extra nights cost versus how much would it generate?

Which raises the question in general - who pays for the costs of participating teams in general?

AbusesToilets · 02-10-2023 01:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184755#Comment_121184755

Hopefully the chancers running the CC will take more of the benefits of group structures like that

FrancieBrady · 02-10-2023 01:14PM

Mapimpi gone and the Pollard/Libbock conundrum must be hugely upsetting SA's prep and confidence.

Have to be the top team in worst shape going into the last weekend of the pools.

Cookiemunster · 02-10-2023 01:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184853#Comment_121184853

They've played their 4 pool games. They've just sit back and see what happens this weekend.

Am has been added to the squad to replace Mapimpi.

ArmaniJeanss · 02-10-2023 01:26PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184744#Comment_121184744

Who is buying these tickets though, especially at literally a few days notice? They have the main draw years in advance supposedly because such a long lead time is needed for sales.

So under a plate/shield competition we find out next Sunday that fixtures like Tonga v Uruguay, Chile v Portugal and Scotland v Japan are happening a week later. How many fans are going to purchase tickets for these games and travel to France (or Australia in 4 years)? How many fans already in France are going to stay on? How many advance sales could have been made to locals when the teams were unknown (Group A 4th v Group B 4th is a pretty tough advance sell).

And advertising/broadcast revenue. How much are these games actually worth to advertisers/broadcasters? Very little imo - if you are paying X to be a sponsor or broadcaster of the main event, then I don't believe you'd pay any extra money. You might accept the games as a free content filler, but paying money for them? I see it as a bit like the soccer EPL decision to televise every game during Covid - they quickly found out that Picks 8/9/10 had no commercial value and broadcasters weren't willing to pay so they became freebies to Sky/BT/Amazon.

And finally the players - depending on how long pre-camp was they have been away for around 7 weeks. Is there really much enthusiasm to hang around for another 2 weeks to participate in a Shield/Plate? Or just get the hell home?

So whilst I can see the merit of the idea in a sporting sense, I don't think it stacks up.

legend99 · 02-10-2023 01:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184932#Comment_121184932

Yes. Doing it in the 7s model, when it's all done in a weekend, when everyone is there anyway, is one thing, but everything you've raised here on the practicalities of the 15s game and it going on for weeks more for those teams, is very valid.

eagle eye · 02-10-2023 01:42PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184251#Comment_121184251

It's not an irrelevant question. And Insulting a poster for saying it is highly disrespectful.

Fact of the matter is that Ireland scored 7 points in the first half, that's 3.5 points per quarter, We scored 10 points by the end of three quarters, that's 3.3 points per quarter. At the end of the game we had score 13 points, that's 3.33 points per quarter. So our points scoring average remained almost exactly the same whether in front of behind.

To suggest that it's highly likely things would have changed if South Africa had scored two penalties isn't supported by facts or math. We were behind and our points scoring average never changed. There is no basis for suggesting that we could have changed our scoring average based on the performance of the other team.

eagle eye · 02-10-2023 01:45PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184693#Comment_121184693

I'd like the sevens set up.

You are likely to have Scotland and Australia in a shield which doesn't give much chance to the rest.

02-10-2023 01:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185039#Comment_121185039

If a team kick a successful penalty, we kick off to them and they start off in their 22. If they miss one, they're running the ball back from a goal line drop out. That alone is a massive difference. The idea that:

a) They left 11 points out there - not sure I've ever seen teams include multiple kicks from their own half as 'missed points' before

b) If they make a couple of kicks they win the game

Both are a bit naff to me. No point talking ifs or buts when we pissed away 4 or 5 huge opportunities from line outs. We can fix that before anyone in the South African squad can start nailing 55m penalties. I include Pollard in that who's reputation seems to improve the more hes out injured

Podge_irl · 02-10-2023 01:52PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185039#Comment_121185039

It's completely irrelevant.

If someone waves a magic wand and the game was the same except we were 4 points down when Crowley kicked the penalty we obviously wouldn't have kicked it.

2023 RWC Buildup, Squads, Fixtures 'etc'

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