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"Green" policies are destroying this country

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  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    The EU CBAM comes into effect from Sunday. this will see a carbon levy applied to carbon heavy imports (steels, iron, fertilizers etc) that originate outside the EU. This is a good move by the EU as it both encourages those industries to transition to greener production methods both inside and outside the EU.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,016 ✭✭✭creedp


    If he didnt know the answer so be it. However he did know it was inconsequential. Not sure how he'd know the latter without knowing the former. Maybe just a simple misunderstanding



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,743 ✭✭✭✭Larbre34


    No, what it encourages is for the EU to be more self-reliant for its raw materials and chemicals, as can be seen with German and Belgian intensification of mining certain important minerals, for example.

    You can't build without steel, you can't feed 500 million people without fertiliser, we must make it locally, is all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭greenpilot


    Tiny percentage? Nearly every house in rural ireland runs a back boiler from a stove. I was in a DIY store in Co.Longford this week and they were EXPANDING their solid fuel stove section in the shop, such is the demand. One would wonder how accurate statistics are in this regard.

    You should see the tonnage of turf being purchased across the western seaboard this time of year. Why? Because it boils down to cost. With electricity prices doubled in most homes and kerosene prices rocketing, stove sales are increasing and by extension, the demand for turf and solid fuel. Go take a look out in the yards of every Co-op in the country and count the pallets of kiln-dried wood for sale.

    Whether one agrees or disagrees with the Green policies, they are drastically out of touch with reality. At the end of the day, putting food on the table and heating a home for your family comes first, and people outside the m50 bubble couldn't care less about being green when it becomes a real struggle , due to enormous costs, to provide both of those basic needs.

    With The green parties' push to force people to live in towns and cities, their ignorance of life outside these areas, and their dire neglect of rural communities, one thing is absolutely certain. There will be no green party members anywhere near government at the next election.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 698 ✭✭✭TedBundysDriver


    Loads of people use that system to heat their house. What are you on about?

    Amnesty International’s new investigation shows that Israel imposes a system of oppression and domination against Palestinians across all areas under its control: in Israel and the OPT, and against Palestinian refugees, in order to benefit Jewish Israelis. This amounts to apartheid as prohibited in international law.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 698 ✭✭✭TedBundysDriver


    I think the "M50 bubble" is an unfair comment. Plenty of Dubs don't want the garbage the Greens are offering .The Green's core base is well off south Dublin residents who spend 60k on a brand new electric car and think they are doing the environment a favour.

    Amnesty International’s new investigation shows that Israel imposes a system of oppression and domination against Palestinians across all areas under its control: in Israel and the OPT, and against Palestinian refugees, in order to benefit Jewish Israelis. This amounts to apartheid as prohibited in international law.



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    11% of households use solid fuels to heat their homes, how many of those would use a back boiler which doesn't require electricity, I'd wager it's not much of that 11%




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,415 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I lived in a house for years with an open fire and a back burner. The back burner barely warmed the radiators. I know several people who installed stoves in the past few years, none of them had them connected to the central heating, they used oil or gas to heat their radiators.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    You're just guessing though. There are I believe about 2 million dwellings in the Republic, so that 11% represents 200,000 dwellings and likely over half a million citizens.

    And you seem to think solid fuel heating is for luddites?



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    My guess is no more wrong than your own 🤷‍♂️



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,415 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Screenshot_20230929_151245_Brave.jpg

    Here's the breakdown. It's almost all the older houses that use turf or coal to heat their houses (central heating) and way less than 10% of occupied houses (7.1% combined for wood and coal central heating)

    Post edited by Akrasia on

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    You have to admire these folks for standing up and not taking the easy way out

    This follows on from the likes of Chris Packham and Gibbons asking if its time to break the law




  • Posts: 6,626 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Fuel duty pays for your water, it's in the legislation.

    Literally the only objection I ever had to water charges was that they weren't going to reduce the fuel duty they already took for it. It was real double taxation and undermined the legitimacy of the very necessary water charges.



  • Posts: 6,626 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    A tiny percentage of the population live in rural areas so your point is ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭ps200306



    Obviously if people are at risk of freezing to death and the electricity grid has failed, then they should burn something to stay warm...

    My point is, deadly cold is survivable without electricity, people can burn fuel to stay warm

    Deadly heatwaves are already happening at about 1c of warming and for many, are not survivable without electricity and without access to expensive air conditioning systems (that lot of the world's most vulnerable population do not have access to) as the body cannot cool down by putting on more clothes or sheltering in the shade or moving out of danger....

    You can survive deadly heat without electricity, and burn fuel to stay cool. Propane refrigeration has been around since the early 1800s. Sure, it's not as low-tech as just lighting a fire to stay warm. But then, lots of urban dwellers don't have that option either. Modern houses and apartments don't have fireplaces.

    The people who are affected by extreme cold and heat are poor people. I know you don't like to say that because it doesn't suit the narrative. The vast majority of migrants both now and in the future are economic migrants. The only thing that will solve the dilemma is massive amounts of new energy that poorer nations can afford.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,415 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Its a bit mean to call them luddites, but since 1990, very few houses use coal or turf for central heating.

    That's an indication that those houses who still do so, do it because the owners haven't upgraded their heating systems, rather than they just happened upon a better heating system before Oil Gas and Electric heating became the norm.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,415 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I've heard it all now

    Your solution to deadly heatwaves for people without electricity is to jump into a 19th century propane powered fridge

    The heat won't kill them at least...


    And what's with that 'won't suit your narrative' BS? I know that the people most affected by climate change are the poorest. That, not only doesn't 'not suit my narrative' it's what I've been banging on about for years while the 'I'm alright jack' , 'But Ireland will be grand', 'We can't afford to reduce emissions' and 'We can pay money to adapt to climate change' posters on here are the ones who are perfectly happy to screw hundreds of millions of people over in order to save a few cents a litre on their diesel while driving back and forth between the coal merchants and the bog trying to save a few euros on carbon taxes whole muttering under their breath about the green party ruining their day.

    Giving 'Massive amounts of new energy' to poor people is actually a good idea, but all the 'new energy' n the world won't make their former homes any less uninhabitable if there are deadly heatwaves happening multiple times per year, killing people and the animals and the crops they depend on for food.

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,016 ✭✭✭creedp


    Semantics. I pay fuel duty for using fossil fuel in my car. No difference in paying carbon taxes on the same fuel. No interest in the politicians telling me its for a good cause. For the record it doesnt pay for supplying my water not that it matters. I alao pay a shite load of income tax and vat etc and Ive no knowlwdge as to how thats spent either



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 698 ✭✭✭TedBundysDriver


    When are joining the fight against "the climate crisis", or are you happy banging keys on Boards?

    Amnesty International’s new investigation shows that Israel imposes a system of oppression and domination against Palestinians across all areas under its control: in Israel and the OPT, and against Palestinian refugees, in order to benefit Jewish Israelis. This amounts to apartheid as prohibited in international law.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 28 Auld Slapper


    I'm not disagreeing with you on this matter, this project is specifically for freight and the minister seems to be aware that freight transport on our island is not really a runner, passenger rail transport is a tremendous method if the critical mass is available, if we are to see future work habits being primarily from the home, and certainly the value of investing in commercial property and for that matter car parks is questionable at best it brings into question the cost benefit of rail transport.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,315 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Will probably be the last investment of this scale in Ireland given the undermining of our energy security




  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    How about I answer your question when you answer mine, seems fair



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,748 ✭✭✭✭ednwireland


    we have a refurbished stanley 8 which heats the hot water and gives us space heating no electricity required.

    My weather

    https://www.ecowitt.net/home/share?authorize=96CT1F



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭ps200306



    As more and more variable renewable power comes on stream, this storage will serve as a valuable intermediary between demand and supply. We'll get away from 'Baseload' power vs Peak power, and we'll see renewable power being stored and sold as needed to meet demand. This will push Thermal plants completely out of the day to day grid operations but they will still play a role in long term backup, where they can be activated for the 10% or 5% of the time when storage is not enough. Eventually the demand and supply will balance out in the short term, and then large profits will be available for longer term storage until even long term energy storage becomes cheaper than keeping thermal plants on standby for the rarer and rarer times when they will be needed.

    This is pure handwaving. We've already had problems getting people to bid for thermal generation where they would only get to generate for a few percent of the time. But you think people are going to build vastly more expensive BESS to do the same job? Not going to happen. All it will do is push up the price of electricity to extraordinary levels or, more likely, result in a completely unreliable grid. You're extrapolating from an intraday load smoothing service where investment capital is automatically available because there is serious money to be made, to longer term storage where the market conditions don't favour even the cheaper fossil fuel options that are available today.

    Asking for raw figures in terms of how many MW we need, or MWh is not really useful because the numbers are absolutely enormous, and that makes it seem like a mammoth task, but the numbers are enormous no matter how you look at it. If you told someone 60 years ago a single thermal plant would have to burn 40 thousand tonnes of coal a day to provide 2gw of electricity, they might have told you that's too much and it can't be done... well, now we're trying to replace those impossible feats of engineering with a more sustainable model, instead of burning millions of tonnes of fuel a year, we need to install millions of tonnes worth of BESS facilities, and then use that infrastructure to provide grid services for decades to come.

    You are not talking about million of tonnes, you are talking about billions or even trillions. And these things don't last forever. Eventually you are talking about a steady state replacement rate that is completely infeasible. Not to mention that the energy minerals needed to create them don't exist in the required quantities. The moment you do even back-of-a-fag-packet estimates on this stuff is the moment you realise it's never going to happen. And then you have Greens completely mystified as to why their utopia isn't taking shape and emissions are continuing to rise -- it's because they are either innumerate or have their heads stuck firmly in the sand. We need vast amounts of new, reliable, low-carbon, baseload power. I wonder is there any technology available today that fits the bill?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,257 ✭✭✭✭JRant


    Oh are those few cents on a litre of fuel going directly to help those hundreds of millions?

    Because you do know that it's doing nothing for global emissions?

    "Well, yeah, you know, that's just, like, your opinion, man"



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,662 ✭✭✭ps200306



    I've heard it all now. Your solution to deadly heatwaves for people without electricity is to jump into a 19th century propane powered fridge. The heat won't kill them at least...

    Well, no. I was just responding to your "you can light a fire to avoid dying of cold". Turns out you can light a fire to stop dying of heat too. Obviously a better option would be to have a modern grid and air conditioning. But when I suggested that, you suddenly got all worried that electricity grids aren't reliable... which is a bit rich coming from someone who wants to run the grid on unreliables.

    Giving 'Massive amounts of new energy' to poor people is actually a good idea, but all the 'new energy' n the world won't make their former homes any less uninhabitable if there are deadly heatwaves happening multiple times per year, killing people and the animals and the crops they depend on for food.

    You make it sound as if all the places prone to these heatwaves would be veritable paradises if it weren't for climate change. Many are hell holes already. Much of the southern USA is uninhabitable without air conditioning. I've had people collapse beside me from heat and that was just in Tennessee, let alone southern Louisiana or Alabama. I've experienced 40C wet bulb temperatures at night time in New Orleans.

    It's even scarier looking at cities on the Arabian peninsula. Humans live in very artificial environments. It is true to say that billions would die without modern technology. Maintaining and improving our modern infrastructure is a far more important task than mitigating climate change. It would be great if we could do both, but they are not even close in terms of their relative importance.



  • Posts: 6,626 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]



    Carbon taxes are ring fenced for carbon reducing measures. Motor tax is ring fenced for water. Those are the facts and I don't give a damn what you feel is right.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,016 ✭✭✭creedp


    Couldn't give a toss about you hard man opinions either. A lot of uncarbon friendly heat being generated there. Ring fenced taxes my backside..sounds like a Govt PR in other words 100% hot air



  • Posts: 6,626 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    If your going to have an opinion on something please inform yourself of the facts first.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,799 ✭✭✭greenpilot


    My point is, let's see how over 1.7 Million people vote in the next election, shall we?



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