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The emergence of "Zombie" by The Cranberries as an Irish sporting anthem

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Comments

  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 29,938 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    The IRFU aren't scanning Boards.ie to see what people are saying about the song. They don't care about a few malcontents.

    It's not hard at all to see what Munster rugby will do, they will continue using the song. It was chosen by the players.

    I would add, you are wildly misrepresenting what people are saying about provoking people with the song. Mostly people simply don't care, those who have professed a desire to provoke people have done so in the context of saying they are happy to provoke people who somehow take umbrage at a song rejecting violence against innocent people. Is it a bit childish? sure, but the general concept of not really caring about people who are bothered by the song seems fine to me.

    It "turned into this" because of some high profile arseholes pretending to take offence at the song and pretending it was done in deliberate retaliation to the uproar around the Wolftones were given far too much oxygen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,338 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    The difference between Ireland and all the other colonies is that Britain divided Ireland and created a sectarian statelet with a very large Irish minority and for the last 50 years or so has Westminister Direct Rule. That doesn't happen in any other of the colonies (though I think the partition of India was pretty horendous with millions dying and more millions being displaced). We now have two powerful countries with nuclear weapons at their disposal fighting over Cashmir.

    As for the US-UK had their 'Special Relationship' (Remember Thatcher & Reagen). Irish up to fairly recently were 2nd class citizens in WASP US. It was only when Teddy Kennedy started taking an interest after Bloody Sunday in Derry and the perseverance of John Hume in the US that got them involved.

    Westminster couldn't care less about Northern Ireland. It suited them that it was used as a training ground for their army where no questions would be asked when they overeached themselves (i.e., internment and the various torture techniques they used where no questions were asked). It gave them battle hardened soldiers to send then to Afghanistan/Iraq etc. and enforce British influence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,338 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Its unusual that a country's own army would kill its own citizens. Just a reminder of how the British Army weren't too happy with the Civil Rights movement.

    https://www.google.com/search?client=firefox-b-d&q=john+hume+british+army+officer&bshm=rimc/1#fpstate=ive&vld=cid:8d66a6e1,vid:DwBOUkBAO5s,st:0



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    You know what, I do need to take a broader look at this and see how it's playing out elsewhere. 👍

    I can't agree with you though that the motivations expressed by more than a few here have been genuinely anti-war.

    It's quite clearly and transparently been about getting at the 'shinners' under the auspices of caring about the victims of an atrocity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,220 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Do you know what other songs were blacklisted by the UK government at the same time? I think there was about a hundred including Coming In The Air Tonight by Phil Collins and Rocketman by Elton John. I think the B-52s were completely blacklisted as well.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,318 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Ah lucky you ;) .

    Not at all ageist ..Just know that this is the demographic apparently that SF are appealing to .

    So you are happy to be told what song you can sing by a political party / its members . ?

    My point is just that people's choice of art and culture should be off limits politically .

    Edit to my post quoted : it should read " partie's involved in slating those songs " , but for some reason that won't edit on the post for me .



  • Posts: 1,264 ✭✭✭ Mara Quaint Washbowl


    "the british government's key position was irish unity by concent of the british government only, up until the good friday agreement, after which it changed to irish unity by concent of the people."

    The Northern Ireland Constitution Act of 1973 actually established the consent of the people principle, ie, the constitutional status of NI could only change if a majority in NI agreed to it. This was restated in the Anglo-Irish Agreement of 1985, the Downing Street Declaration of 1993, and finally in the 1998 agreement. Pity it took so long for SF and the IRA to eventually arrive at accepting this, not to mention the thousands of lives lost for nothing during that period.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,783 ✭✭✭mikethecop


    is there really a point with arguing intelligent articulate factual points with these shinnerbots ?

    i mean if you saw people like them the street or in a pub you would smile in sympathy at their pathic nature and move away before they start a fight with someone wearing the wrong premiership jersey



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,268 ✭✭✭✭Ash.J.Williams




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,094 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    If you are anti-war and anti-violence, sooner or later Sinn Fein and its legacy end up as one of your targets. That is an undeniable reality.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    I could be wrong but this is the list I see. About 15 or so songs. I think a lot more were banned in the US.

    You'll see there's plenty of songs there that wouldn't be considered remotely anti-war. Probably something in the video or something in the title. It all depends on the context and I'd say an awful lot of songs/sayings/poems etc can be offensive if intended that way. As a politician mm would be well aware of this, but I guess he thinks it's advantageous to let this roll on.

    The 'national leader' thing to do would have been to say, let's not politicize this, let's leave these divisions in the past, people were just singing the song innocently and call for cool heads.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,094 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    You are now commenting about a Micheal Martin interview that you refused to watch. Says it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    I've watched it since, never refused to watch it, only it wouldn't be top of my list as a sf voter.

    It's clear to me he's only trying to politicize further. He'd be well aware that things can be offensive depending on the context.

    Fans singing 'Zombie' as a sing a long, personally I don't find offensive. If I were singing the same song to US soldiers in Shannon what would mm think of that? He's well aware of this stuff.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    Tbf the idea of mm defending an anti-war song is pretty ironic.

    What I find interesting here is his comments after that protest...

    "I think it’s people with a particular viewpoint on the world saying that nobody else can have another viewpoint, or nobody else can come to a forum and articulate another viewpoint, that would be my view"

    Yet now there's only one way to interpret this song? Like I said, he's chasing votes.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,338 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    Who/what do you consider to be shinner bots? I just want to see who you are trying to insult with that post.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,934 ✭✭✭✭EmmetSpiceland


    “It matters not what someone is born, but what they grow to be” - A. Dumbledore

    “It is not blood that makes you Irish but a willingness to be part of the Irish nation” - Thomas Davis



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    Hmmmm, not sure if that's correct but you certainly missed a few:

    • Wants some hope of owning a house.
    • Doesn't want to die old and alone on a hospital trolley.
    • Wants to be able to send kids to college.
    • Expects some sense of fair return for their taxes.
    • Concerned we're moving to a polarized country of have's and have-not's
    • Won't downplay homelessness and fudge the figures.
    • Accepts sf's commitment to the peace process and doesn't want history lessons from civil war parties.

    I don't think sf are going to 'wave a magic wand', but I believe a left wing gov will be a move away from repeatedly turning to the same neoliberal policies and rhetoric which are proven to have failed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 102 ✭✭goodlad_ourvlad


    I'm shocked and appalled that I sung along to The Cranberries and now I hate SF



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    You're grand, I certainly get that most rugby fans are decent and were just having a singalong.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 102 ✭✭goodlad_ourvlad


    I've even stopped calling it "The Emergency" and said World War 2 a couple of times... I even had a craving for Yorkshire tea instead of Lyons ... lads I need a tricolour, quick!



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,783 ✭✭✭mikethecop


    how do you feel about the many murders rapists and assorted other criminals associated with sf

    the ongoing criminality the dodgy dealings bot farms connections with narco terrorists ,

    the outright blatant lies told even here about historical facts , there are posters here who are claiming to have "won" the troubles and that sfira fought a clean war, which consisted mostly of shooting unarmed civilians and children (proxy) bombing and sniping at soldiers if it wasn't too dangerous for themselves

    are they people you can trust ?

    I know a few decent grassroots shinners who left when they realized what the party really was or do you think the army council really have your best interests in mind ??



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    Like I said, I'm willing to accept their commitment to the peace process.

    But tell me this...

    If they really are such a terrible bunch of devious criminal bogeymen, why are our current government so lax about handing them the keys of power?

    Why do they keep burying their heads in the sand, and just giving us spin after spin, around housing in particular?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,783 ✭✭✭mikethecop


    you would be happy with sf members in government who killed children tortured innocent men and women to death to cover their own touting ? people who are still involved n smuggling and gangland crime ?

    like many shinner posters you are trying to conflate disgust for sfira with love trust or even tolerance for the current government. its a well established pattern. for the record if you lie , i think leo is the worsts possible kind of populist and is much more interested in his own personal progress than the nations.

    handing the keys of power as you say to a organized crime gang isn't going to improve housing , priory hall anyone ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,761 ✭✭✭standardg60


    Rugby fans who sing the song knowing they're calling out child murderers are not decent?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    What sf candidate killed children? Sorry, you sound a bit deranged with that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,220 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Did a bit of googling and found that the BBC had a list of 67 songs they "banned". I think the US did have more. Basically it seems it was any song that had lyrics or titles that might remind listeners that the UK was getting involved in a BS war in Iraq. It had nothing to do with Northern Ireland or the Troubles.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,266 ✭✭✭MegamanBoo


    I thought it was just a singalong?

    Is a rugby match really the place for that?

    And wouldn't it depend who they're calling out for child murder? I've heard all sorts, but has this turned into some kind of a broader anti-child murder campaign now?

    Would ye give it a rest.

    Sing the song for a singalong if you like. But if your there to make some sort of political point I'd prefer if you just stayed at home.

    I don't think anyone wants that nonsense, and I'm not trying to censor you or cancel you.

    One group at a match co-opting songs to have a go at sf, another crowd having a go at FFG (Fields of Athenry might work here?), nobody wants that.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,644 ✭✭✭Francis McM


    Republican paramilitaries killed twice as many as loyalist paramilitaries did. I condemn both, as do most decent people. The security forces caught and jailed large numbers from both sides. Even during the troubles in N.I. most Catholics there did not support S.F. Here south of the border SF only got 1 or 2% of the vote.

    In your head, in your head.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,783 ✭✭✭mikethecop


    Jesus wept !! thats your take away from wanting to put a crime gang in power ?

    how many terrorists were never convicted for their crimes. how many got out of jail under GFA ? how many are now sf party members.

    do you know ? no because no one knows and the party isnt going to tell you , tip of the iceberg of what you will never be told about sf



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,338 ✭✭✭✭jm08


    You have no idea what support Sinn Fein had back then. They didn't take their seats in either the Dail or Westminister (so not much point voting for them). They had good representation on councils in NI (represented on 19 of 26 councils in 1985). Lets not forget that Sinn Fein representatives were banned from speaking by both British and Irish Govenment. We didn't know what Gerry Adams sounded like until 1993. And lets not forget that the British Embassy was burnt down in Dublin by mainly Fianna Fail/Fine Gael voters.

    By the way, you can lump the British Army/RUC and loyalist paramilitaries together. Did you know that the first child killed in the Troubles was by the British Army.



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