Let's Be Honest Public Transport in Ireland is an Abominaiton Because it is Meant to Be...

ArcadiaJunction · 21-09-2023 6:01pm #1

I was looking over the current progress for the Dublin Metro and it is entirely conceivable that we could wait a half-century before anyone gets on a train. One simple metro line when were should be on our third and fourth metro line by now. Yes, I know about the planning issues, the legalities, and the NIMBYs but it still does not account for where we are in late 2023. Navan could be opened in a year and all the passing loops and so on needed to create capacity the same. Yet the timelines presented are truly staggering and offered up as if we should be impressed. It is truly astounding. Rather than the politicians and civil servants being embarrassed and trying to solve and streamline these bottlenecks out of the way, I am now fully convinced that the politicians and civil servants - if anything - pander to the bottlenecks on purpose as a kind of sabotage.

I honestly can't say for sure why this is, but there is a genuine and evidential clandestine war on public transport (mostly in Dublin) by the state and its bureaucrats. They are constantly on the lookout to find ways to kick the can down the road for all eternity.

mazdamiatamx5 · 21-09-2023 6:02pm

Basically agree.

ArcadiaJunction · 21-09-2023 6:05pm

This gentleman came to do a consultation on Dublin bike lanes in 2013 and in the video he is literally shocked that nothing has been done apart from bike graphics painted on regular traffic roads.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKn84SQ6-bg

ArcadiaJunction · 21-09-2023 6:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121139583#Comment_121139583

and remember this is a country with Green party in Government and the other parties claiming to be signed up to their policies. Compare that to what the Tories have delivered in the UK (Crossrail, Oxford-Cambridge lines, and HS2 charging along) and things really begin to take on a truly disturbing perspective.

tom1ie · 21-09-2023 6:14pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058314814/lets-be-honest-public-transport-in-ireland-is-an-abominaiton-because-it-is-meant-to-be

Blame lies with under resourcing of ABP.

The minister responsible is Darragh o Brien:

For all housing, planning or heritage related queries please don’t hesitate to contact:

Email: minister@housing.gov.ie

Phone: 01-8882000

Postal address: Department of Housing, Local Government and Heritage, Custom House, Dublin 1, D01 W6X0

mazdamiatamx5 · 21-09-2023 6:33pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121139592#Comment_121139592

Speaking as a former Green Party member , they've never had much interest in rail. Strange people.

mazdamiatamx5 · 21-09-2023 6:37pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121139592#Comment_121139592

Indeed.

Sam Russell · 21-09-2023 6:51pm

Eamonn Ryan canvassed NYMBY voters in Beechwood/Cowper who were against Metrolink. He should have been pressing for it to go ahead as fast as possible. Instead, it has been truncated and delayed hugely.

He is in pursuit of perfect Green policies rather than getting realistic policies implemented. He wants the M20 to consist of town by-passes rather than a Cork to Limerick motorway. He wants a direct Limerick Cork railway line on a new alignment rather than double tracking the Limerick to LJ line.

He is in favour of off shore wind even though there is no realistic of any of that happening within a decade. He is in favour of a 'hydrogen based economy' despite that one has not even invented yet.

He is away with the birds.

ArcadiaJunction · 21-09-2023 6:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121139623#Comment_121139623

Do you actually believe he gives a shite and will act accordingly? Really?

ArcadiaJunction · 21-09-2023 6:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121139809#Comment_121139809

Perhaps the most destructive politician in the history of the state.

ArcadiaJunction · 21-09-2023 6:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121139724#Comment_121139724

I recall 20 years back Cuffe asked to have himself removed from some Dublin Transport Activist Group and the following night he was fawning over the Athenry to Collooney 'solution' on RTE. Literally had tears in his eyes looking at the map some gombeen councilor in Mayo was showing him.

Sam Russell · 21-09-2023 6:55pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121139824#Comment_121139824

No, we have had worse - much worse.

gjim · 21-09-2023 8:00pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121139824#Comment_121139824

Don’t be daft. Ryan gets a huge amount of undeserved stick but in reality he’s been the best and most effective Minister for Transport for years. BusConnects, DART+ and ML collectively represent the biggest investment in PT transport in Dublin since independence and he has pushed on with all three including securing cabinet commitment to funding for all of them which is more that can be said for the pre-GFC metronorth and dartu plans. I can’t imagine any other as minister advancing the dramatic expansion of the greenway system as much as he has - from a few km in Mayo to 100s of km today. Despite his dalliance with Danville NIMBYs, since becoming minister, he’s quietly pushed on with ML. He’s turned the entire transport budget focus on its head where previous ministers were happy to continue with status quo of 90% of spending on roads. Even if imperfectly implemented, there’s been a huge expansion of cycling infrastructure/lanes in many cities.

You think the likes of Shane Ross did better? History will look kindly on Ryan’s record. The best hope for PT in Ireland is for Ryan to stay in this role in the next government - unfortunately it seems it’s fashionable to slag Ryan, but be careful of what you wish fo assuming you care at all about public transport in Ireland - given the history of the Ministry, it’s more than likely the next minister will be a dud or worse, will pause and review the current project list to death.

Cal4567 · 21-09-2023 8:06pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121139592#Comment_121139592

When you put it that, it is very telling. I'm in the UK a lot and as most people here should be aware their, the Tories, public service remit including transport infrastructure is poor.

No way on earth will we ever reach any climate or transport targets. I take with a pinch of salt any forward estimates any of our politicians come out with.

tom1ie · 21-09-2023 8:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121139813#Comment_121139813

Nope.

But ABP are the reason your starting this thread.

Charles Babbage · 21-09-2023 8:19pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121140114#Comment_121140114

Greenways may well be desireable, but they are not transport in any meaningful sense, Most people just travel up and back for recreation.

There has been little enough progress on the mass movement of people.

Charles Babbage · 21-09-2023 8:24pm

...

tom1ie · 21-09-2023 9:13pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121140114#Comment_121140114

Bus connects, dart plus and metro link aren’t ER plans though?

Don’t forget he actively tried to delay metro link with his crayon drawing.

What bus connects corridors have been built under his watch?

What new luas lines or dart lines have been built under his watch?

Has he delivered ANPR cameras?

corks finest · 21-09-2023 9:16pm

Greens aren’t helping

that langer in charge of transport has underspent by e2 hundred million

corks finest · 21-09-2023 9:17pm

He’s a bloody abomination of a transport minister

corks finest · 21-09-2023 9:18pm

AKA an awful gobshite

Sam Russell · 21-09-2023 9:33pm

Mod: Can we cut the abuse against someone not represented on this forum.

He may have his failings, but being abusive says more about the poster than the object of the abuse.

gjim · 21-09-2023 9:50pm

"Bus connects, dart plus and metro link aren’t ER plans though?"

Exactly. And this attitude is a perfect example of why nothing gets done in the country. Every new minister - because they don't "own" the plans, orders "reviews", rethinks, etc. over everything initiated by their predecessor predecessor.

Ryan, despite me expecting the worst given his Danville avenue antics (back in 2018 - two years before becoming minister), did no such thing and quietly dropped his stated policy to start a full review of MetroLink once he became minister and just pushed ahead with what the NTA had come up with.

"Greenways may well be desireable, but they are not transport in any meaningful sense"

They're funded from transport budget - and they support a variety of uses including commuting and tourist travel. I know that Shane Ross added the square root of f-all in terms of greenways - the money was spent on roads instead.

"What new luas lines or dart lines have been built under his watch?"

He's only been minister for a bit over 3 years ffs and half of that was during Covid - and he's being blamed for a century of underinvestment in public transport.

He did his one job - which is to secure funding in cabinet for the big projects and they've all advanced in terms of engineering, planning and financing. Planned transport spending on infrastructure has gone from the 9:1 in favour of roads for the last few decades to 2:1 in favour of public transport. There has never been such a commitment to spending on public transport.

"He’s a bloody abomination of a transport minister"

Name a better minister of transport over last 2 or 3 decades, then.

gjim · 21-09-2023 9:59pm

Btw - if you search my comments, I was happily sticking the boot into Ryan during his first year along with the rest of the mob. I've slowly changed my mind basically given his performance since. I suggest stepping back and try to consider his performance objectively without prejudice and particularly in the context of past transport ministers. I've been interested in/following the woeful state of PT in Ireland for decades - I've never, in all that time, been more optimistic that we are finally about to achieve major leap forward.

end of the road · 21-09-2023 11:02pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121139592#Comment_121139592

this would be the hs2 which has had most of it canceled because the tories can't do cost control?

gone from a network covering the major cities to a line from a parkway to a station built on a former rail depot, it won't even go to the termini of either london or bermingham.

yes the tories have invested but it's not been without cuts and over runs to the projects that mean they can't deliver their full potential.

Charles Babbage · 22-09-2023 1:06am

Greenways certainly support tourist activity and may well be justified for that reason. But if they were any real use for commuting then they should put the railways back on them, in the 26 counties the greenways are mostly in sparsely populated scenic locations that are nice for tourists but not commuting corridors, the Comber line in Belfast is one where they should have put rails (albeit tram rails) back rather than having a greenway.

Ryan has been better for public transport than previous ministers to be sure, and I compliment recent efforts on transport outside the major urban areas, but he has preferred to obstruct roads rather than advance high capacity PT alternatives.

whisky_galore · 22-09-2023 5:30am

Here's your problem, right here.

"I am now fully convinced that the politicians and civil servants - if anything - pander to the bottlenecks on purpose as a kind of sabotage."

Politicians and senior civil servants, by and large don't use public transport. Using it is beneath them. Politicians will take credit and pose for cameras and cut ribbons but they won't be seen dead on it themselves.

PT is for the poors and in this country it will always be of bare minimum, poorly funded, Aldi bargain bin standard.

Ryan gets stick but he's a terrible communicator, comes out with some ridiculous brain farts. He has made the green cause hugely unpopular outside of the affluent largely urban fanbase.

hans aus dtschl · 22-09-2023 9:32am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121141391#Comment_121141391

Strong agree with a lot of this.

Public transport is for poor people. Rich and successful people have cars. That's the Irish mindset of the past 50-60 years.

BUT I believe it's changing now for the first time, albeit slowly.

I never in my life saw the amount of investment in bus and rail that I'm now seeing, so I give the government kudos for that. My local bus route frequency has gone up, it's hours of service have increased, and I'd wager that the ridership has increased massively. The price has decreased. I've found myself using the bus routinely this year for the first time in around a decade: this is significant for me, as I have access to multiple cars and drive a lot.

And with regards greenways V transport, the greenways near me shadow working commuter rail lines. I have long argued that there should be pedestrian/cycle segregation rather than greenway (mixed) but I have - despite myself - found myself using them for commuting. So they are working for some transport. Maybe they can be more effective, maybe they can be designed better, but they're giving me a safer commute where I previously was on the road.

Rather than the thread title, I would say it's more like "Public Transport in Ireland is an abomination because we have a long-standing cultural belief that it's for people who can't afford a car, which everyone aspires to drive".

whisky_galore · 22-09-2023 10:04am

To add to the above Colm McCarthy, an economist who has railed against DART and Luas is still given the time of day. Hopefully he is the last of yesterdays men with influence. Wouldn't Dublin look nice now with neither DART or Luas?

Sam Russell · 22-09-2023 10:25am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121141391#Comment_121141391

Todd Andrews (he who closed the Harcourt line) was head of CIE, and he received a deputation from Kerry of councillors who were objecting to the closure of a little used line in Kerry.

His first question to them was 'Can I see your train tickets?'

Of course they did not travel by train, and therefor had no tickets to show. He ran them out of his office - if they do not use the trains, then why complain when the line closes. When lines are/were threatened with closure, protest were made by all those who liked the idea of the line but never ever used it.

And that is a major problem with public transport in Ireland - and I suspect worldwide. Those that make decisions on public transport do not use it of necessity - or at all.

Why do CIE managers get company cars? They just need 'golden' train/bus passes.

Economics101 · 22-09-2023 10:33am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121142063#Comment_121142063

I think that the reason Todd Andrews asked for the West Cork lobby's train tickets was that he knew you couldn't get from W Cork to Dublin and back in a day by train. Cheap but clever trick on his part.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121140456#Comment_121140456

Very likely this is due to the ABP mess, which is way beyond Eamon Ryan's responsibility. Several projscts have been with ABP for ages.

Let's Be Honest Public Transport in Ireland is an Abominaiton Because it is Meant to Be...

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