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Enoch Burke turns up to school again despite sacking - read OP before posting

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 37,916 ✭✭✭✭Hotblack Desiato


    Link to the story aloyisius referred to above:

    Usual mix of hysteria, misinformation and outright lies.

    Post edited by Hotblack Desiato on

    I'm partial to your abracadabra,

    I'm raptured by the joy of it all.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,963 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    For his sake I hope he doesn't have a Samsung S23 Ultra



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,570 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    No. Long way to go yet.

    WRC - Labour Court - High Court - Supreme Court - European Court of Human Rights.

    Literally years left to run on this.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    He has to have grounds to appeal. Not just what he thinks.

    He could only appeal to the ECHR on a point of law.

    This has all been covered earlier in the thread, if you want to read back.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,915 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Exactly - He doesn't get to appeal because he doesn't like the outcome , he has to raise a point of law that the appellate system believes is worthy of review.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,570 ✭✭✭✭Boggles




  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    This. ^^

    It has already been made absolutely clear by three HC judges, that EB's case against WHS has nothing to do pronouns, is not a transgender issue or about his religious beliefs, no matter how hard he shouts about them.

    It's about his behaviour, and that is irrefutable.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,915 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    What point of law will he be able to seek to challenge regarding discrimination?

    NOTHING that has happened to him is due to his Religious beliefs.

    1st question that would get asked in a challenge based on discrimination will be - "Did you engage with the disciplinary process and raise your concerns?"

    His answer is "No" , he just screamed and ignored the courts over and over again.

    Any appeal he tries on discrimination grounds is dead before he even starts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,570 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    The WRC is based on procedure, he will shoe horn in discrimination.

    Again I never stated he would win, I imagine his family will descend on the proceedings demanding John Rodgers.

    But the gross misuse of the legal system is not over with this lot.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,537 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    I suspect he will try to argue that countless judges have erred in law by not allowing him to pursue the religious discrimination argument; and I also suspect that every avenue he tries will re-affirm that the judges were correct to disallow the religious discrimination red-herring.

    That said - all he really wants is to be allowed to continue milking this for as long as possible - it's all just extra hardship on the path towards martyrdom in his mind, and IMO his end-goal is to make himself a martyr for the far-right religious loons around the world.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 244 ✭✭thehairygrape


    The more I read about this family the more I believe they’re a bunch of narcissistic attention seekers. I’ll gladly pay my taxes to see 3 of 10 banged up indefinitely or until they realise the rule of law applies to everyone.



  • Posts: 15,801 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Has nothing to do with the issue at hand, see mod warning in the first post



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,963 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    It has already been made clear that discrimination has no part in the WRC decision. He can try to shoehorn in what he likes but any attempt to take this to the supreme court will fail at the first hurdle. they wont get their day there to scream and shout at judges.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,806 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    You have to work your way up to that, but with enough time inside he should be good for an S9 Ultra or even a Surface Studio 2.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,570 ✭✭✭✭Boggles




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 54,560 ✭✭✭✭tayto lover


    I said that too. I'm convinced it will happen.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,963 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    The one that will inevitably be made when his sacking is confirmed. Discrimination plays no part in his sacking and will have no part in the inevitable WRC case.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    They tried that with Justice Groarke in the case again NUIG. Didn't work then either.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,570 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    I wouldn't like to predetermine the findings of the WRC, they do make some eye watering decisions.

    But I know discrimination has played no part my point is he will shoe horn it in. But that is really beside the point to how he will take the case to the WRC.

    The WRC doesn't relitigate what went on before, it's separate and independent.

    It largely examines whether due process was followed.

    From memory at one of the high court sittings the judge hinted that process wasn't followed and if Burke and his cult family managed to keep their mouth shut he was going to rule against the school on that issue.

    If any part of the process was not followed to a T the WRC will rule on it.

    Now the last time the Burkes showed up at the WRC it was the first time since it was established that someone almost got arrested at it. So I imagine something similar with occur, maybe even go one better.

    My overall point was that in response to a poster that claimed when the appeal is finalised this will be over, it won't because that's not what this litigious cult do.

    It will be at least WRC - Labour Court - High Court.

    This will go on for years.



  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    My overall point was that in response to a poster that claimed when the appeal is finalised this will be over, it won't because that's not what this litigious cult do.

    I take it that part is aimed at me.

    I never said it would be over. I said when the DAP is over the whole game will change.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,656 ✭✭✭Glencarraig


    Best place for him is in Florida with the rest of the "anti woke" mob that DeSantis has assembled.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,570 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    The game doesn't change.

    Burke has no intention of getting his job back, this is about Martyrdom and the grift that comes with it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,963 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    It really won't. Appeals from the Labour court are limited to appeals on a point of law.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,537 ✭✭✭blackwhite


    I think they actually want to lose the court cases - all feeds into the oppressed martyr narrative



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,232 ✭✭✭✭Annasopra


    There is absolutely no way this will end up in ECHR.

    It was so much easier to blame it on Them. It was bleakly depressing to think that They were Us. If it was Them, then nothing was anyone's fault. If it was us, what did that make Me? After all, I'm one of Us. I must be. I've certainly never thought of myself as one of Them. No one ever thinks of themselves as one of Them. We're always one of Us. It's Them that do the bad things.

    Terry Pratchet



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,114 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    Given that the school, as a C of I school, is linked to one branch of the Christian community and is accepting of its pupils request to be addressed as They/Them, could there not be a case stated that EB and his Evangelist Christian family are involved in actively waging religious discrimination against the school because it agrees with the pupil's choice AND a separate case stated that EB and his Evangelist family are actively waging religious discrimination against the pupil on a similar basis: denying both the school and the pupil the freedom of religious choice allowed for by the constitution?

    The EB case, as stated again and again by him and his family, is that he is being religiously discriminated against by the school. The school plainly does accept children of different religions as pupils and persons of different religious belief as teachers [as shown by it employing him] in an active process under the constitution.

    It may be time to fight fire with fire by the state [the AG] stating a case in protection of both the pupil and the school rights in the constitution from the fake religious discrimination claims of EB and his family.



  • Posts: 7,522 ✭✭✭ Magnolia Hissing Youth


    He wasn’t last time because he annoyed everyone else so much.. aside from its unfair to the other prisoners having to listen to his shite all day, the fact is he was going to get battered.

    I imagine that would cause the prison service a lot of hardship, considering the people involved & they would not be so willing to allow it to happen.

    You also cannot be tried for civil contempt of court. It’s not considered a punishment it is a coercion method. The point is to have enoch follow the courts orders not punish him for a period for refusing to do so.

    He can only be released by purging his contempt, which he will be periodically brought to court and given the opportunity to.



  • Posts: 7,522 ✭✭✭ Magnolia Hissing Youth


    What are you on about? He’s already been to the high court and ruled against plenty of times.

    In fact the high court has jailed him for contempt of their orders. Judges have also dismissed his motions in court against the school telling him he cannot defy the court and then seek the courts help.

    If I recall correctly it was looking for injunctions to stop his dismissal. So don’t be so sure he’ll go to the LC or Indeed HC. If Ammi’s WRC is anything to go by he won’t get past hour one.

    He’ll never be leaving prison without purging contempt and perhaps the court will order the fines paid also. So even if he wins a WRC case, miraculously and is given any compensation he already owes the school legal fees so he’ll get nothing..

    On the point of that debt too I’m sure the school can use that to garnish his salary were he reinstated which could render him disinterested in returning anyway.

    Either way I strongly imagine the only outcome of any appeal is positive for the school.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,570 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    What are you on about? He’s already been to the high court and ruled against plenty of times.

    What confused you exactly?

    The high court ruling was around the validity of his suspension not his expulsion which hasn't happened yet.

    He’ll never be leaving prison without purging contempt

    We don't detain people forever unless they have committed and been convicted of a serious crime. If we did that he would definitely off to higher courts.

    Anyway he was let out in December without purging his contempt.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,114 ✭✭✭✭aloyisious


    EB's line is that what he claims are his religious rights trump ANY rights the pupil has to make a choice and ask for validation by requesting others to use the pronouns they/them while addressing said pupil. It's not a matter of religious belief at all, it's a form of personal address. As you said, using martyrdom he's made it all about himself and is using that as a cover to be personally abusive to others - as exampled in the school meeting and in the high court, aided and abetted by his family. They are abusing the process of justice for no good purpose, following a process used by people of similar belief in another jurisdiction. Hopefully the ECHR would reject any attempt by him and his family to have it hear any case they might make on the grounds that the case has no valid standing before the court.



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