General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

I don't think refs are influenced by managers, no. I am saying this in response to your comments about Klopp as if he suddenly influenced refs in to not giving Utd as many penalties. You are using a stat that Utd have been awarded less penalties since Klopp's comments and have come to your own conclusion that the commemts he made must be the cause, ignoring other realistic possible causes.

I do think the amount of media scrutiny refs are under now from broadcasters like Sky with the inclusion of former refs giving opinions etc can influence refs in terms of I believe it must hit their confidence and introduce more doubt and uncertainty into their decision making. Everything they do now is micro analysed and debated more than ever. It allows fans to compare decisions to similar incidents in other games where a different decision might have been made and cry about the unfairness of it all. Fans weigh up the favourable decisions and unfavourable decisions they get over time and seek a balance. If they don't think it's there then it's a grand conspiracy.

As I said I think the standards are just poor, highlighted by the inconsistent decisions in games irrespective of what teams are playing.

I watched ref watch this morning with Gallagher and thought he explained the decisions quite well and more or less with full agreement from the pundits. He even admitted the City goal was a terrible call by VAR, which it obviously was. The fact you described one instance in Arsenal v Utd as a “rugby tackle” doesn’t help your argument if I’m honest! Utd fan?

I will admit I was confused with the Luton penalty call. Thought it was a clear pen myself.

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This is just weird now, gone too far.

Who do you suggest as an independent person - media pundits, ex-managers, Tyrone from Coronation St? I'm being a little trite, but fundamentally I'd have thought it needs to be an expert in the rules - hence, a currently qualified referee.

My issue though is that they are only using EPL-list referees who have qualified up through the levels and proven themselves as able to control matches, have rapport with players, physically fit enough, not panic in games etc. Which is a good skill-set to have, but VAR requires a different skill-set.

So perhaps they shouldn't just limit it to the list of EPL referees but instead have VAR specialists - people who failed to make the step-up to EPL level but may be better with the technology, quick and concise analysis of events, ability to spot what angle needs to be looked at.

Or just ditch VAR and be no worse off.

Mike Deans interview was insightful because it shows that what we expect referees to do and what they actually do are completely different.

We expect referees to apply the rules of the game as they see it.

But they actually view themselves as part of the game, not outside of it. Wondering things like “If I make this decision what will that mean for the game?”. We see situations that back this up all the time, cards not given because a referee doesn’t want to affect the rest of the game. Same hesitation with penalties.

VAR as a concept isn’t the issue. The idea that having a process that gives referees more information to come to a correct decision is detrimental to the game is mental.

How games are being reffed in the first place seems fundamentally broken.

a great example of this is players that are on a yellow card asking for a player to be booked - that is supposed to be an automatic yellow card but no refs wants to send someone off for it, so they don't give it. they are tying themselves up in knots with rules, they are being written and read to the letter, but not taking the feel of a game into account.

Handball is a clear example of this, or the offside rule on player interference. How Romero got away with the handball vs United is amazing to me, but you will see a much more suspect (closer/faster) one given. I remember an Arsenal player (i think) vs United (not this season) crawling along the ground and SCOOPING the ball away and it wasn't given - because arguably it was the arm supporting his body so not a handball!!

The Bruno/Rashford offside vs City - by the rules Rashford didn't stop anyone from getting to the ball or making a play on it - so its not offisde. But we all KNOW it should be, just as we know the City goal at the weekend should be offside.

Football fans, players, managers, refs etc - we all generally know what should or should not be given as handball, or offside, based on how the game is played and what is reasonable to expect of players, but the rules are getting too letigious, and that is as much down to fans demanding consistency as it is anything else.

All a bit of a farce.

Not cursed, rather the culture is rotten.

Giggs and Ronaldo aee revered, and have both had serious allegations made against them, that while not proven out in a court of law (like Greenwood).... well it's clear the cases have merit.

If Giggs and Ronaldo are OK given their behavior, then why would Greenwood and Antony not be OK, because they are somewhat less talented? Antony is only there a year or so, due diligence should have weeded him out before he was signed, but it would appear there was a no look/no see attitude to him as with the others.

Im obviously no United fan, but nonetheless, their 'curse ' is more down to a poor culture and bad leadership than bad luck.