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The dairy boom.Can we officially say its over

17810121316

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,325 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    No, a ltd company is normally set up to limit your personal liability. That is the purpose of it. But it does have other benefits too


    For farming, it can suit to have a company structure if you have high profit. As sole trader you get hit at the top rate of tax. The company will pay 12.5% corporation tax on profits. If it disburses them to you, you pay tax at your marginal rate

    If Mikekc the sole trader makes an additional 100k he pays (just say) 40k tax and can take the remaining 60k to go and buy a field. However if Mikekc sets up Mikekc Ltd.and it earns the additional 100k profits, it can pay 12.5k tax and put the 87.5k towards land. But the company owns the land in the latter scenario. Mikekc owns the company but it owns the land. That's not the same as Mikekc owning the land



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,384 ✭✭✭amacca


    Could you buy the land and get the company to rent it off you and you get the rent tax free?


    Asking for a friend....


    (I'm sure they have that one covered, right?)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,325 ✭✭✭✭Donald Trump



    Not sure. You can't get the long term lease relief if you are a connected party i.e. relative. You also can't get it if you are basically doing a swap. I don't know whether renting to a company in general would qualify - never mind your own company. It's not something I ever thought about to bother to look it up

    There is nothing stopping you from renting it to the company though. Not sure why that might seem like an advantage. Unless you were hoping to extract the 17k a year from the company tax free. You would have to lease them your land though. And you'd have had to pay your own personal tax on the funds used to buy that land.

    Sometimes people will transfer their land into the company as a directors loan. They will try to get it valued as high as possible. They might have some CGT to sort out as a result but they can basically withdraw that money from the company later on tax free. The company will own the land going forward though



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,612 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    Do people thinking about going milking go at calculations backwards.most seem to start with a certain number of cows and work backwards to the profit whereas should you start with the profit you need to make then add the costs to get to the turn over you need



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,030 ✭✭✭green daries




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,030 ✭✭✭green daries




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,384 ✭✭✭amacca


    I suspected as much....I'll have to think harder!😅



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 3,030 ✭✭✭green daries




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,754 ✭✭✭older by the day


    I enjoyed that post. Where/what will be the thing to invest in. I'm much the same. I won't be investing much on the farm for the next few years. I don't really want to go down a property route as i don't want the hassle of upkeeping and its too expensive now. My savings are making nothing so can you divulge more of your plans



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,031 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    It makes little sense putting land into a company structure and paying CGT to put it there as it will cost you 15% to get that money out, unless you only recently inherited it or recently bought it and cannot pay for it.

    However you have to go back to the land is owned by the company not the farmer any longer.

    Slava Ukrainii



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,132 ✭✭✭straight




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Castlekeeper


    I'm sorry to break it to you, but nobody has much use for a facts machine these days.

    “We are all capable of believing things which we know to be untrue, and then, when we are finally proved wrong, impudently twisting the facts so as to show that we were right. Intellectually, it is possible to carry on this process for an indefinite time: the only check on it is that sooner or later a false belief bumps up against solid reality.” George Orwell.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 2,435 ✭✭✭Castlekeeper


    Maybe try organic oats, it might be the liquid sunshine.

    “We are all capable of believing things which we know to be untrue, and then, when we are finally proved wrong, impudently twisting the facts so as to show that we were right. Intellectually, it is possible to carry on this process for an indefinite time: the only check on it is that sooner or later a false belief bumps up against solid reality.” George Orwell.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 21,031 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    There is always investment opportunities but it's the ability to see them is often the issue. At present there is a 70k house refurbishment grant. How many farm yards have an old dwelling house in it that could be refurbished and rented out. Its better than that as you can access the SEAI grants which is about another 20-30k

    Many old farm yards have old stone sheds that could be turned into basic small one or two bed rentals that could go on AerBnB or if near a large urban centre could be rented out as lockups for trades people. These option may not apply to many but I have seen sheds and houses torn down just to fill the sides of the tank of a new shed.

    Problem with farming is many continue to invest within the agricultural part of the farm with often no extra value added.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭Tonynewholland




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,109 ✭✭✭farawaygrass


    If you decide to change the use of a shed and rent it out for storage, is there planning implications there?



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 4,676 Mod ✭✭✭✭Siamsa Sessions


    Bit of both for me.

    The amount of ground you have plants a certain no. of cows in your head. Then there’s the income you need to be left over when all costs are removed. That income needs to be met by the no. of cows.

    If it doesn’t even come near it, then that’s it - forget about it and move on.

    If it looks like it might, then I’ve to try figure out if it’s worth it.

    Everything in the media talks about the no. of cows coz that’s black and white sums and equations, for a large part of it.

    But what someone needs as income is more complex and rarely fits into the spreadsheet of our State body.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 971 ✭✭✭Count Mondego


    70k wouldn't go far in a lot of these refurbishments.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,477 ✭✭✭Tonynewholland


    Add to that most of these houses are in the middle of or very close your farm yard which brings it's own problems on a working farm.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,612 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    Since you ve brought it up kinda,looks like family will be based in the city for a few years between courses and jobs .should we buy a place now on the basis that we d have someone of our own in the place to manage it and to have some hope of keeping the rent we 'll pay anyway together



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭MIKEKC


    They may not have had for a facts machine but facts are certainly useful when doing business



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭MIKEKC


    Having the land in a company would be a big no no for most people I would imagine. Getting the money out to buy land would be the problem



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 657 ✭✭✭Jack98


    Would the whole point of having the limited company not be to have additional funds available to pay for land and buy it through the company to limit the liability of the individual when purchasing it. Would be owned by the company then and tax would only be paid when removing it from the company at a later stage ?

    Probably be no better off when all is said and done financially wise but you would have the safety net of the company while paying for the land?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,314 ✭✭✭alps


    CRH had a personal guarentee form at the time that you had to sign if you were to have product supplied to your company.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,386 ✭✭✭jaymla627


    Putting in a drafting gate here and the rep is also in the robot game, highest spend per cow he's seen is 8k a cow on a greenfield site, and has done alot of places where 5-6k a cow has been spent, going to be tough times for the above unless they have another income bar the milk cheque



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,570 ✭✭✭Mooooo


    There are personal guarantees on most finance now at farm scale anyway whether being in conpany or not. Crh would only sell lime to regular sole trader farms with a while, blocks or concrete or anything like that they wanted money credited to them first, no matter how small the load, lost a lot of farm customers locally even after buying up a few quarries with the carry on.

    Re dairy, the uncertainty of what can or can't be done would prob do as much damage as anything else, a couple of years go by and young lads will be gone to other industries. Big correction needed in building costs across the economy or the country will be caught in a hole a lot longer



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,950 ✭✭✭✭mahoney_j


    Rising interest rates by ecb to cool inflation is having a huge affect too



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,258 ✭✭✭MIKEKC


    Are you sure that was in place in 2005?. The salesman told me he lost a 200 th order because of it. Lorry.was actually at the farm when it was discovered that the person had changed to company Load of lime had to be returned to the quarry.



  • Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 3,612 Mod ✭✭✭✭K.G.


    Just to put a bit of figures on borrowing to set up milking.if you borrow 5 k over 10 years to set up milking you are effectively getting 12cent less a litre for your milk than an established fella with no borrowings. I know fellas will say nobody would borrow that much or I m out in my figures but the simple sums are 6000 euro ÷ 50000 litres over 10 years



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,314 ✭✭✭alps


    Not sure. Went back through my emails but can't go back far enough to find it (eircom.net days). Not many lads farming in company at that time tbf, but we formed a purchasing group (ltd company) back around 2001, so had been introduced to the form some time at some stage after that. Think it really came into its own when the chit hit the fan around '07, and the more important target for it may have been for builders.



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