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UK will finally off shore illegal asylum seekers crossing the channel

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  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    That would mean you would have to actually address points and can't deflect anymore!

    Are you prepared for that?



  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    We're a soft touch ,

    80,000 through DP over the 25+ years,we supposedly have a 75% refusal rate yet in the last 25+ years we have only deported 1400 individuals ,

    We don't track failed asylum seekers,and have no real mechanisms to hold and deport failed asylum seekers,we do offer near unlimited appeals and unlimited free legal aid ,

    We now have a influx of immigrants believing they are entitled to protection under the illegal immigrants amnesty,


    Tell us how we are not a soft touch



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,385 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Most refugees who come here would be perfectly willing to work hard if given the opportunity. The idea that the male refugees are potential rapists, criminals and terrorists (the line pumped out by the usual suspects on Irish social media) is made up nonsense - those three categories usually have zero interest in applying for asylum in another country or living on a pittance in a refugee centre.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    what do you want to know?

    can't believe you're still laboring this dead end by the way.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 40,291 ✭✭✭✭Gatling


    And yet we see evidence that some are criminals , rapists, murders., drug traffickers and several documented cases of people trafficking while going through the asylum process.



  • Registered Users Posts: 16,508 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    Ok so why are there 3000 people (mostly young men) living here with nothing to show who they are and where they came from.

    I take it you agree they should never have been let into the country in the first place.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    Your deflections aren't a dead end, no matter how desperately you want them to be



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    Well why don't you detail to us your plan to shut down the north coast of France to all small boat launches with considerations to the amount of manpower required to do this and how permits are going to have any effect on illegals crossing

    Also you can show us that you have informed yourself on the size of the north coast of france



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  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    I never had such a plan. Just a 'wish'.

    Although in theory I suppose France could choose multiple segments of the coast to place restrictions on. And has abundant assets with which to do so.

    Intense restrictions would only really be needed towards the eastern end of the north coast for maximum affect, mostly in the vicinity of Calais. And around Cherbourg. As you move west the channel widens significantly and becomes very unsuitable for dinghys. The journey time also increases dramatically meaning the odds of being caught increase.

    Such restrictions wouldnt have any real basis of complaint in international law. As one person mentioned. Just domestic policy outlawing access to these particilar beaches and waters, which just so happen to be in the best spots for illegal emigration, and just happen to be extremely vast in some cases.

    As I pointed out this is already the case with certain beaches in France which are off limits for ecological reasons. Although other justifications for turning people back are available too.

    Thats about all.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Why on Earth would they do this though? I wish France would just decide to gift me a million Euro, but they aren't going to.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Ehh because theres a rising number of fatalities.

    And an ongoing trend of lawlessness, along with the arrival locally of characters associated with the world of organized crime, drug smuggling and people trafficking. And probably some extremists thrown in there too, the odd serial rapist ... who knows really.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    There are numerous fatalities on the road also, but they're not about to shut all the motorways.

    Again, you and others of your ilk wildly overstate the problem and the resources you expect to be devoted to solving it. Shutting down the north coast of France, even just large swathes of it, would a)aggregate the **** out of your citizens, b) be legally questionable and c)cost billions.

    You may only be expressing your wish, but it is a wish based in the realms of fantasy.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    We can but hope.

    That fewer people would perish in dark icy waters.

    The roads are a necessity, and under relative control.

    Smugglers transporting unknown people across maritime borders arent needed, or presently under any proper control.

    If I were a local of Calais I wouldnt be in any way aggrevated by the arrival of a govt response to this chaos. Quite the opposite.

    Sometimes you have to spend a little now rather than a lot later. This chaos wont stop itself, so France has two choices, just let it spiral or exercise territorial control.

    One day itll all get too big, therell be a murder, a scandal and an outcry. Then a complete teardown of the people smuggling industry in the region. And thats why my wish is not entirely fantasy.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    If that is actually your concern than asylum processing centres in France are by far the best way.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    why stop with just a UK asylum application center.

    we could have a UK asylum application center, attached to a Morocco asylum application center, a Lebanon asylum application center, an Israel asylum application center, and a Egypt asylum application center, and a Jordan asylum application center. And so on. Kazakhstan, etc.

    That way, if you get turned down by the UK you can just claim asylum somewhere else.

    But we know they won't respect that. That they'll just hop in a dinghy for UK. Because they don't respect other peoples wishes.

    And thats why you need to physically prevent them.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 26,094 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Right. So you don’t actually care about people dying crossing the channel. Cause that is what this would help.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Sure I do.

    Its just not my only concern. Unlike some I have both a mind and a heart.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,385 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    "In the year ending March 2022, Germany received the highest number of asylum applicants (164,925) in the EU+, followed by France (112,860). When compared with the EU+ for the year ending March 2022, the UK received the 4th largest number of applicants (66,838 – including both main applicants and dependants). This equates to 9% of the total asylum applicants across the EU+ and UK combined over that period, but the 18th largest intake when measured per head of population."

    Protecting the UK's borders is simply not a priority for France, not when they are taking in far more asylum seekers themselves (double the UK number). Also, trying to stop all UK bound asylum seekers from getting to GB would put even more pressure on their own asylum system. Why would they want to do that?



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  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Its in France's own self interest. Of the immigrants entering France a certain percentage will be there only to use France as a stepping stone to the UK. Tightening controls on the option of hopping across the channel would reduce the feasibility of that option and the associated costs of dealing with the channel migrants in pas de calais and dunkirk. (where they've caused all sorts of issues).

    Of course UK needs to do its bit too to eradicate this tragic industry of cross channel people smuggling, and the Rwanda policy is the most practical step they've taken. Good for them, about time. And if they're further down the chart then thats what others should be aiming for. Invert that chart. Make it a leaderboard.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,385 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    Even if they wanted to stop people crossing the Channel, it would be nigh on impossible. They would have to deploy many thousands of border guards and troops along the northern coast of France and that wouldn't even work, especially at night time - it's relatively easy to cross to Dover from around 40-50 miles of French coastline. The British tabloids are peddling a total fantasy in saying that it is up the French to 'sort out' the issue.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    The UK tabloids are azzholes. And yes this is essentially a UK problem, France just happens to be the route taken by the clandestine migrants.

    But patrolling and stopping the dinghys is far, far from impossible. Most leave from the Calais area. Beyond 50km either side of Calais the channel widens significantly.

    (from about 40km at Calais to Dover to an average of about 140km average across the channel, with Cherbourg the next closest point at about 90km)

    France easily has the resources to stop the dinghys, especially if UKs navy and Frontex assist.

    And there are civilians who keep an eye on the situation. (calaisiens en colere). And commercial ships already report them regularly, and its the busiest shipping lane in Europe.

    Night time just means heat sensitive optics make it easy to pick them out.

    The means are definitely there. The will just isn't. Its politics.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 18,385 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    The only way the issue will ever be properly dealt with is through effective asylum channels, efficient management of new migrant arrivals, streamlined processes for processing claims, smart cooperation between countries etc. Most of the suggestions of military interventions, gunboats, soldiers patrolling beaches, physically hauling people out of dinghies and so on is just headbanger talk from loons on GB News and in the Daily Mail who want a 'law and order' solution to a humanitarian problem - people who have no interest in having an efficient or successfully working British asylum system.

    None of the the above would play well with Daily Mail readers / Tory voters in the UK either. They actively want the asylum system to fail.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    Or effective borders. Effective repatriation. An appropriate welfare system. And an inflight magazine called 'back you go'. 101 other ""asylum"" locations.

    Also in this edition, Dubai; home of yachts, billionaires and the worlds tallest skyscrapers. Egypts new $45 billion city project. India's space program launches domestic suborbital rocket. Top 10 African megacities with populations over 5 million; they can make it, why cant you.

    Humanitarian assistance is more efficient for more people when applied in their country of origin. Or in similar cultures. Let them have asylum in their neighboring countries. Asylum shouldn't be a question of pick your favorite.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 784 ✭✭✭Juran


    20 years ago, Ireland being a touch seemed to be well known in a certain African country, they had the pick of DP hotels and all trappings of the Irish refugee system. They must be seriously put out that the big secert is and every tom, dick and harry arenow rocking up to our airports, ports and border looking for a piece of sweet pie. (Note, Ukrainians fleeing war is an excemption to my comment).



  • Registered Users Posts: 1,588 ✭✭✭uptherebels


    So you were just rambling then. Glad you cleared that up.

    What abundant resources are you referring to? What resources do you think it requires to actually implement a shut down of massive stretches of coastline.

    If you did actually shut down the easier places to launch from, do you believe that they will just stop?

    Getting caught on the water is only an issue if returned to France. So the width of channel isn't really an issue in that regard.

    The whole place is an issue for overloaded dinghys as it is

    beaches being closed for ecological reasons is irrelevant to people crossing the channel. Placing restrictions are pointless. If you want to shut down beaches to people launching from them. They need permanent constant persistent patrols. Which would require massive amounts of manpower and funding.



  • Registered Users Posts: 728 ✭✭✭20Wheel


    What resources?

    Police, gendarmes, customs, navy. Commercial vessels also cooperate with the authorities to report dinghys. (Hundreds of commercial vessels, relatively small area).

    Locals (tired of the various shenanigans associated with clandestines) also regularly report them. Some of the more 'outgoing' locals do this actively on an organized basis (calaisiens en colere).

    Of course the width of the route is relevant, these are overloaded slow moving dinghys theyre using. Normally with just 1 motor. Theyre regularly restricted by weather conditions too. Frequently have technical problems.

    The capabilities are easily there. Even moreso if UK chip in a few vessels.

    There are also severe weaknesses in the communication methods of the smugglers. Their services are offered to randomers through social media and word of mouth in the migrant community. Mostly organized by text.

    I feel theres maybe some kind of unspoken association being made between this shtty little disorganized, regional, amateurish, low volume, low finance, low sophistication smuggling of immigrants, and the unstoppable, high everything drugs trade. The situations are hugely different, just saying.

    Putin is a dictator. Putin should face justice at the Hague. All good Russians should work to depose Putin. Russias war in Ukraine is illegal and morally wrong.



  • Registered Users Posts: 24,307 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    Plan B is Ascension Island





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  • Registered Users Posts: 22,363 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    England is full. No room for refugees there. Ascension island on the other hand, that place has loads of space and resources to accommodate asylum seekers



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