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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • Posts: 12,836 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Ireland should never call somebody up to camp just to stop them leaving their province



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,466 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,137 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Every single one of our imports is here because he didn't have a prospect of getting a cap for his native country, and Ireland offered an easier path. No one has ever said otherwise.

    A couple of them have subsequently proved that they could indeed have got a cap at home, but most of them have not. Time will tell which category Healy falls into I guess.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,421 ✭✭✭✭phog




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,421 ✭✭✭✭phog


    But only referred to in one instance, I wonder why?



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  • Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,251 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭ersatz


    The point about some of our players eventually getting capped if they's stayed at home is interesting, and I wonder if it's true. Player development is bizarre and non linear, a couple of injuries to established players can sometimes lead to a player who was solidly outside breaking in and eventually making an international career, and similarly a good player who is on track can be discarded and passed by when they're injured. Or a guy moves club and blossoms under a different manager/culture. Would Lowe have had the time and coaching to develop his game and become a very good defender had he stayed in NZ? He had the skills and promise but in a place with a conveyor belt of great wingers coming through would he ever have become the player he is? Same perhaps fr JGP. Healy might well become a player none of us predicted in Scotland for similar reasons.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    The EI tour was an agreement between Ireland and provinces on who should travel. Healy was starting for Munster at that time and Crowley was down the pecking order so it made sense for him to travel and not Healy. If both Healy and Crowley travelled it would have left Munster extremely short in the 10 position.

    People have different opinion on who should/shouldnt be in the squad. To me I didn't think he was ever in a position he could feel hard done by for not making it. But Im sure other would disagree but I certainly don't think he should have travelled on the EI tour ahead of Crowley



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    JGP was never going to get capped if he remained in NZ. Even when he was available for Ireland most people never expected him to get capped, didn't he become available just before the last WC?

    Based on an interview Lowe did before he didn't think he would get capped either, he mentioned he had a long discussion with his father etc when Leinster offered him a contract because it was with a view to play for Ireland.

    Stander was told to move to the front row because he was too small so he was out of playing for SA.

    Healy is just turned 24, at 24 would anyone have predicted Sexton's future? It's hard to know how far he will go but he is gone.



  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 44,034 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Strauss. Kleyn. Roux. Diack. White.

    even Stander moved here because he was told he was too small for SA.

    JGP was never within an asses roar of the AB squad despite 8 caps for the maoris over 3 years.

    Jared Payne couldnt get a sniff of a training place after 2 seasons of SR

    All found an easier route to test rugby by coming to ireland



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    I would happily recruit as many foreigners as possible.

    Do I contradict myself?
    Very well then I contradict myself,
    (I am large, I contain multitudes.)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,123 ✭✭✭Ardillaun


    We’re better placed this time but I’m not going to be shocked by setbacks. On our day we can beat anybody. Let’s hope the rugby gods smile upon us.

    Do I contradict myself?
    Very well then I contradict myself,
    (I am large, I contain multitudes.)



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,292 ✭✭✭ersatz


    That's the point. You could see something similar for Beirne had he stayed at Leinster instead of moving to Wales and then Munster. In Healy's case things might work out really well for him, he definitely has the basics to become a great player but he had no realistic prospect of developing in the Irish scene. Fair play to him for going for it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,615 ✭✭✭TheRona


    You're both wrong and ignorant, but nobody's perfect 😁

    I don't think anyone seriously thinks a teen-ager moving to NZ and eventually playing for the All Blacks is anything remotely the same as adults moving to a country with a very real expectation of representing that nation in a few years.

    In any case, I don't see why it should be NZ's job to develop rugby prospects from Pacific Islands. World Rugby should force all Tier 1 nations to take a quota of promising PI teenagers, develop them at their top rugby schools (sure, the local lads missing out won't mind) and then send them back to play for Tonga/Samoa/Fiji for internationals. The country that developed their skills in could also pay their salary.

    Post edited by TheRona on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    Beirne issues in Leinster was not down to his quality or his skill. He just couldn't stay fit. BOD talks about it that he was with him during one of those injury periods and it was heart breaking for him. If Beirne managed to stay fit he would of certainly progressed in Leinster but at some stage they had to cut ties, which in the end turned out great for the player.

    In Healy case he had been knocking around Munster for a few seasons on 1 year contract renewals to keep his option open. He was playing a good lot of game with JVG but when the new coaching team came in, he was playing at a lot at the start but then drifted out of the team. At the time he signed for Scotland he was probably the furthest he had ever been from playing for Ireland. After he moved Carbery fell out of team and in my opinion he was the best 10 for Munster towards the end of season. I still think if he had signed for another year he would have missed the WC and next year he would have ended up still outside of the Ireland squad and signing for Scotland.

    Now I am getting on in years so my recollection maybe wrong in terms of his status in Munster but I do believe even if he stayed another season in Munster he wouldn't have got into Ireland squad



  • Moderators, Sports Moderators, Paid Member Posts: 31,466 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    They're not remotely comparable scenarios. We were ranked 4th going into the World Cup warmups and it was just a number of weird oddities in those (meaningless) games that propelled us to first. Which we kept for all of about 2 weeks.

    We've been ranked number 1 now for a year and had an unbeaten season while there.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,122 ✭✭✭Shehal


    Anyone that tries to compare this side to the 2019 side just loses any credibility they tried to create.


    For the record in 2019 Ireland were number 1 for 2-3 weeks or something like that, in 2023 they've been number 1 for over a year and have had a 100% winning record in that time, quite clearly a completely different team.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I just watched the scotland game. Thought Healy was pretty good. If Harry Byrne and Frawley can make camps, then Healy is absolutely of a level that should have made a camp at least.

    However, from an ireland longer term future pov, how is the most obvious prendergast comp not Ben Healy? They are such similar style players and they have almost all the same strengths and weaknesses.

    With that in mind, i don’t know if his rise to international level will be as quick as people think.

    Farrell has a type at developmental 10 and they are generally athletic dudes who could credibly play 12 and/or 15. There’s a reason that it took Byrne so long to get back in and why Healy never made even a camp. I don’t think Prendergast is the his type at all currently. He needs to get more athletic and be a credible threat as a runner.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    ross and harry byrne dont really fit that bill thought, much as theyve both played in the centre for leinster



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,417 ✭✭✭Brief_Lives


    great hair



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,421 ✭✭✭✭phog




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,625 ✭✭✭sprucemoose


    i wouldnt have him as a 12/15 unless an emergency though



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I have doubts of his body holding up there but i absolutely think he could play 12 otherwise.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,377 ✭✭✭Yeah_Right


    Haha. I love it. Take that proposal to World Rugby 😁

    @Former Former Former Yes all the AB front row replacements that came on last Saturday qualified under residency. Ofa moved to NZ with his family when he 13 or 14. Nepo was even younger as his family were moved to NZ when his older brother Casey became a pro rugby player. NZ scouts are good but not that good.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,137 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    In any case, I don't see why it should be NZ's job to develop rugby prospects from Pacific Islands. 

    Nobody said it should be. I guess the hope would be that you and the Aussies would stop plundering those prospects

    It will never happen because turkeys don't vote for Christmas, naked self-interest is a strong motivator so nothing is going to change any time soon.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    If healy and Crowley traveled, Munster would have had no 10!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    Was Carbery not kncoking around at start of season?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,137 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    when his older brother Casey became a pro rugby player. NZ scouts are good but not that good.

    or you could say they are that good, that they recruited one teenager to play rugby and ended up getting his (better) brother as part of the deal.

    Sevu Reece would be in the ABs squad if not for injury, right? There's another one.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa




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