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Data centres back in the spotlight-using 18% of total power consumption of the country

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,726 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    There is no objective to reduce electricity consumption.

    The plan is really to do the opposite by electrifying heat and transport. This is part of decarbonisation.

    At the same time the plan is to decarbonize electricity generation.

    Overall emissions are managed at EU level one though a ‘cap’ on total emission allowances from electricity generation and industry. Every year the cap is reduced by about 4 percent.

    Industry and generators who need to buy allowances at auction. It is critical that electricity is decarbonized or else it will become very expensive.

    Post edited by antoinolachtnai on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 31,764 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    I would guess that you wouldn't be happy if your entire family's photos were lost in the next Icelandic volcano eruption.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 42,593 ✭✭✭✭Boggles


    More chance a data centre in Europe would be effected than one in Iceland.

    When the eruption in 2010 shut down air travel across Europe Icelands Airport remained open because it was built "up wind".



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,694 ✭✭✭timmyntc


    Many people who store their pictures in data centers that have not suffered any catastrophic outages find that their photos have in fact been lost.

    Corrupted images on "the cloud" happens surprisingly often, because its cheaper to not have the proper redundancies or integrity checks in place.

    Even google had similar issues with 10year old photos recently - though they still had originals intact thankfully in this case.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    It is and never was the cloud providers job to protect the data. Even companies installing mission critical data on the cloud, if it is corrupt the cloud provider is not at fault. It is on the company to have multiple copies/backed up etc



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,159 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    You die from food poisoning; that no fridge idea is looking even cheaper, as your future spend on energy, food, everything, drops to zero.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,694 ✭✭✭timmyntc




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,159 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    The cheapest way to provide large quantities of zero carbon electricity to power data centres, EVs and so on, is nuclear energy - by a wide margin.

    In the energy infrastructure thread there was a big greenie high-five over a report that Ireland is on course to have 1 GW of solar energy capacity by the end of the year.

    I wondered what that was actually likely to cost in terms of real output vs the utter BS that is 'capacity' and what alternatives would cost comparatively.

    In terms of the capital cost vs the actual amount of electricity produced; solar costs €9.27 billion per GW, UK offshore wind costs €6.17 billion per GW, and Polish nuclear is projected to cost €3.19 billion.

    So if you really value the hosting of data centres in Ireland, perhaps the cheapest cost of doing so should be considered. If the nation can't stomach the idea of nuclear and is irredeemiably wedded to the concept of expensive energy provision, then perhaps this country shouldn't be allowing them to proliferate.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,159 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Shhhhh.. That's the Ryan master plan no one is supposed to know about.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 483 ✭✭hymenelectra


    Like all the stupidity in this country, you can bet your tits there's a significant amount of corruption behind this.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,399 ✭✭✭✭kippy




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,726 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    You have gotten confused here. The correct metric for this comparison is LCOE. Serious comparisons don’t bear out your conclusions.

    https://www.iea.org/data-and-statistics/charts/levelised-cost-of-electricity-in-the-european-union-2040



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,159 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    Au Contraire, it's you who are confused - LCOE is an inappropriate metric when talking about the actual cost of renewables, since it doesn't take into account costs involved in supplying electricity when the renewables are not functioning, which is most of the time.

    Gas, coal, hydro, nuclear, can all supply electricity at night, solar can not, in the same way wind can't supply power when the wind isn't blowing. So in order to compare renewables with base load or dispatchable sources, you should factor in the costs required to make them functionally comparable.

    To ensure enough electricity is always available to meet demand, storage or backup generation may be required, which adds costs that are not included in some instances of LCOE

    You need to compare like with like.

    In conclusion, the LCOE metric cannot be used to fully compare generation technologies. Given the complexity of electricity systems, in many cases the LCOE metric will provide answers that are simplistic rather than simple.

    Data centres need and consume power 24/7/365. It's complete nonsense to claim solar is a cheap power source when it can only supply 10% of the needs of a data centre and to ignore the cost of supplying the other 90%. To fairly compare the cost of solar, to a power source that actually can supply power 24/7/365, you should cost a solar based system that can match the required performance through use of larger array areas feeding into energy storage systems so the resulting solar based system can meet the required pereformance.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,707 ✭✭✭✭Potential-Monke


    Can't remember if I posted this already, but comparing the recent EI bill to the same company a few years ago, our household has reduced out electricity usage by ~66%. The last 2 months bill was for ~€240 and covered 480 units of usage (smart meter on old plan). Checked the bill for the same period from 2019: ~€260 for 1380 units. The 2020 bill for same period: ~€220 for 1180 units.

    There isn't much more we can do to reduce our usage, yet even at ~66% less we're paying more than we used to. My only alternative is to install solar panels, which can cost anywhere from €6-18k. So if I go with 6k, one panel I assume, it won't pay for all my electricity needs so I'll still be paying EI and a loan on top of it. It's just not feasible at the moment. Seems like I'll have to change my entertainment to watching the grass grow and creating an outdoor hole for use instead of a fridge. I've to reduce my usage so companies can increase theirs... That's how it feels anyway. Data centres should have to invest heavily in renewable solutions here, and not just for their company, for everyone in the area.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,726 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    So there are some drawbacks with LCOE and so you use a metric of your own invention which seems to be capex / MW * Capacity Factor. Then you go on to compare the results of your formula based on projected costs for one fuel with actual costs for another. Unsurprisingly the salesman’s projections are cheaper than actual costs. It’s completely daft. And the results of your calculations are completely at odds with the chart you have helpfully provided.

    You need a mix of sources on any but the smallest grid. Everybody knows this. You can’t possibly figure out the optimal proportions with a childish formula like yours.

    You are ignoring the infeasibility of starting a nuclear project in Ireland. There is simply no suitable technology at present and there won’t be anything proven adequately to safely move into large scale production for ten years. I wish there was a suitable technology. But there isn’t.

    On the flip side there will be many new storage technologies available by 2030 and the safety case for any of them is far more straightforward then nuclear.

    obviously it is true that the sun doesn’t shine at night and I am indebted to you for reminding me. But others have done detailed study on this and say it is feasible to make this work. You haven’t really presented anything cohesive to rebut them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,941 ✭✭✭donaghs


    I agree with the first part of your post, but not necessarily the final part. If Ireland's data centres were in the UK or France, the internet will continue to function normally.

    But of course if every country tries to block new data centres this would eventually impact internet usage.

    There's a serious question about how many data centres a small country with a small population should be hosting. Especially as our electricity supply is coming under more strain with the shift to renewable power. Especially if they are using 20% of the electricity.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    You have spun the same tale on any thread remotely related to the environment. It's totally incorrect and as pointed out on other threads referring to "Green cult" is incorrect.

    DC have very little relevance to a person working from home or from an office. So maybe you can explain why a DC would make a difference to someone sitting in an office compared to sitting at home? explain the logic please



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    Maybe explain this better. The DC doesn't reduce sprawl if you are working from home or in the office. They will still have the same servers etc for the users. The same applications etc

    Now a user goes into the office they will normally connect to the intranet which will allow them to access workloads etc. If away from home they will connect to internet and then via a VPN they will connect to the intranet like in a office.

    The user coming in from remote actually means the security requirements increase and additional servers are required for VPN etc. All companies would prefer everyone in the office on intranet as it is easier to secure from bad actors.

    Somehow based on what you have posted I very much doubt this is your day to day job. This is basic stuff and you have no understanding of it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,550 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    Is there a term for "turn off the datacenters that I don't use" yet?

    Would people be happy to pay their ISP on a meter for all datacenter based traffic they use?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    You are switching the goalposts to cover up for the lack of knowledge on the topic. Using bold....ekkkkkkkk

    I support DC's in Ireland by the way. But I know why I support them. As I said you seem to have no understanding. Also by the way, writing code has nothing to do with DC's and the code writers I know wouldn't know one end of a server to the other. It's not their job and they don't care.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    Most DC's are now hybrid and disperse to stop disasters. The overhead and cost alone to track all the communications/interlinks etc would cripple the network. The amount of traffic these days is incredible.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    So now code writers build servers? building servers is working with the server hardware. Code writer is on the software side. Both wouldn't have a clue how to do each others job but combined will deliver a solution to a customer.

    Basics, the very basics of IT. Even in my nappies I knew that



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    Again switching the goal posts. As usual the best you can come up with is foul language and talking about cults or ideologies.

    As I posted I support DC's and I support them been housed in Ireland. If you read the thread you will see the extensive information I have already posted on why, not just the DC but all the companies involved around a DC. You should read

    Also the duration of posting on boards doesn't make the content any better.

    It's also alarming when you go around companies today you find the "IT experts" and then look at the mass pile of rubbish running companies. Nobody with any idea what server runs what, who owns what etc etc. All running on Windows servers and nobody fit to patch anything or how to patch it. Half arsed developed applications which are nothing but resource pigs. Just terrible terrible terrible coding from so called experts.

    Just look at the HSE. One big pile of incompetence for years which is left up to people now to resolve. You will find the private sector is just as bad.

    If we actually resolved all the mistakes of years ago then the requirements for DC's would massively reduced. The problem is the time it takes to resolve all of that incompetence.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,550 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


    I know it's impractical, it just seems this always descends into "I don't use it so it should be turned off" when you'd have to be a serious luddite to have no dependencies on the cloud daracenters.

    Services can check to see which DC are emitting the most carbon or using most electricity (usually the same thing) and can shift and scale their workloads accordingly by automation.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,726 ✭✭✭antoinolachtnai


    If all data centres could be magically closed tomorrow it would make no difference to overall emissions. It is unintuitive but is just the way the emissions trading system works.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,280 ✭✭✭ZookeeperDub


    In reality nobody has any idea which DC they use or don't use. To even connect to a service you have gateway, DHCP servers etc. All which can be in different DC's dotted around Ireland or in the World.

    Most DC's have spent years and millions of euro trying to reduce power. Investing into technology like VMWare etc. The more power and cooling they use the less profit they make. As I mentioned above the biggest issue is poor coding which means you have resource hog applications which just eat up whatever is thrown at it. Also the "experts" who came out of uni for the last 20 years and the best they could come up with is 100's of Intel servers running windows for everything. A resource hungry operating system with a resource hungry application and it spells disaster.

    The death of HPUX, Solaris is terrible in my opinion



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