General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

citytillidie · 16-06-2023 09:38AM #1

Fixtures for each team.

Mod Note: 27/06/23 - this is a General Thread to discuss the Premier League.

If you support a Premier League team you should be aware you are likely to read posts that are not always complimentary about the team you like. You are welcome to make counter points but you are not welcome to make comments about posters or fans of a club in response to points you don't like. Posters doing so will receive forum cards and or thread bans.

Mod Note: 21/05/24 NO Man City Charges Chat in this thread - it has a specific thread.

TitianGerm · 17-06-2023 07:45AM

https://www.skysports.com/football/news/11095/12904036/martin-tyler-legengary-commentator-leaves-sky-sports-after-33-years

Great news to hear in the run up to the new season. It honestly feels like he's commentating on a funeral the last 5-10 years in about 95% of the games I've watched.

It'd be great to get Durey now. I think himself, Neville and Carragher could work well together.

kowloonkev · 17-06-2023 09:00AM

Tyler's voice was completely gone in the last year. It was very noticeable. Hope he is not suffering ill health and has a long retirement.

Bugatti · 17-06-2023 12:07PM

As a Liverpool fan I detest City for cheating their way to success, but the players at the club deserve to enjoy the results of their hard work on the pitch. And on that point, I just wanted to say what a breath of fresh air Jack Grealish has been over the past week. Great to see a player genuinely enjoying and celebrating their wins. I’d say he’s a fantastic personality in the dressing room, he seems to be everyone’s friend and and you can see in his celebrations that he has a close relationship with back room staff, kit people, etc. I’d love to see more personalities like Grealish in the game. It needs these types of characters.

Necro · 17-06-2023 12:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120725774#Comment_120725774

Or... Remove the banter twins as well and get decent commentators in while they're making the changes!

Fitz* · 18-06-2023 08:35PM

As much as I hate Chelsea for all their dodgy/shady financial dealings over the last 20 years, the latest battle with the PL is ridiculously stupid and they are not entirely at fault.

Chelsea wanted to bring in Paramount as a new shirt sponsor but the PL blocked it as they are a steaming service and 'would upset broadcast partners'. So now instead Chelsea are going to bring in Stake.com as a sponsor (gambling company) even though gambling companies are banned from 2024 onwards. But of course they can circumvent that rule.

The same PL that allows PIF owned Sela to sponsor PIF owned Newcastle (above market value) even though that is against their rules also.

Sometimes I really do despair.

~Rebel~ · 18-06-2023 08:40PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120731847#Comment_120731847

Year by year the whole thing implodes further into a farce of itself.

Necro · 18-06-2023 09:59PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120731847#Comment_120731847

All the while also allowing PIFs influence on the investment fund that runs Chelsea to help them out of their FFP pickle. All above board and no shady dealings there, no sirree

TheCitizen · 27-06-2023 11:01AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120732184#Comment_120732184

It’s dodgy as hell and everyone knows it but there’s plenty that will argue the toss till the cows come home that serves as a convenient distraction.

~Rebel~ · 27-06-2023 11:20AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120732184#Comment_120732184

It’s been well established at this stage that’s not actually happened though… like, I’m very very anti state ownership or influence, but there has to be evidence of wrongdoing.

Chelsea lost Kante for free, Koulibaly for 17m - half what they spent on him last year, and Edouard Mendy for a steal at 16m - a 6m loss on him. I don’t see how that can be classified as being bailed out. Those look like quite fair, if not undervalued, fees that we wouldn’t bat an eyelid at if they weren’t to clubs in Saudi. (And those sales won’t impact this years balance sheet anyway since they can’t be put through officially till July)

And we do have to take into account that the fund - which is a massive US/European (including Ireland) based investment entity of which Chelsea is a small fraction, and which has to declare their financial position to governing bodies around the world - have officially stated no investor has more than a 5 percent stake, which means PIF can have no more than a 3% passive stake in Chelsea given Clearlake own 60% of Chelsea.

The headline looked fierce dodgy day one alright, but the actual information so far doesn’t show anything actually nefarious.

IncognitoMan · 27-06-2023 11:27AM

I think what had thrown people is the fees initially reported which turned out to be incorrect. They were well above what other clubs would have considered for players who were largely out of favor and on big wages.

To be fair to Chelsea they found a place to take their unwanted players and managed to get fees even for some. Most clubs are probably mad they weren't in on it.

I wish Utd had sold a few to them to be honest

pjohnson · 27-06-2023 11:31AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120772265#Comment_120772265

Its just hilariously misinformed at this point.

~Rebel~ · 27-06-2023 11:38AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120772341#Comment_120772341

Yeah, those initial reports muddied the water in a big way alright, and made a big splash on the rumour pages, so I can understand the gut reaction of WTF?! (which was my own reaction at the initial reports suggesting gross over-inflation of values), especially when the much lower actual fees have been a bit underreported in the tabloids it seems, since they undercut the story.

Necro · 27-06-2023 11:43AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120772308#Comment_120772308

Yep, the initial reports had 100 mill quoted but when the athletic dug down into the actual fees it seems they're just taking advantage of Saudis wanting to add bigger names to their league and offloading the large amount of deadwood in the squad.

ShamoBuc · 27-06-2023 05:11PM

Mod Update

Feedback Thread now open.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058302652/soccer-feedback-thread-2023#latest

TheCitizen · 27-06-2023 05:24PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120772410#Comment_120772410

Yep, very convenient for them. Nothing to see here.

pjohnson · 27-06-2023 05:48PM

Getting conspiracy deja vu.

TheCitizen · 27-06-2023 05:53PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120774450#Comment_120774450

Spending 400million English quid and spending more than the entire football world combined over the last two windows would lead to genuine suspicion. No need for a conspiracy.

Odd that there appears to be a few EPL fan posters from other clubs hell bent on what appears to be some kind of counter conspiracy on Chelsea's behalf. "To be fair to Chelsea etc. etc."

TheCitizen · 27-06-2023 06:09PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120731847#Comment_120731847

Seems like Chelsea get off scot free no matter what they do. Money talks, as they say.

pjohnson · 27-06-2023 06:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120774474#Comment_120774474

Only odd thing is a frequent apologist for Man City suddenly demanding such a (mis)informed review of Chelsea spending.

But this discussion played out before where you just refused to accept any actual facts.

TheCitizen · 27-06-2023 06:26PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120774581#Comment_120774581

I'm not an apologist for Man City as I've said before many times but yes throw it out and I have to defend it etc... usual stuff.

You and a couple of others on here just continue to ignore the elephant in the room that Chelsea spent more than the rest of the entire football world combined on transfers in the last two windows.

No doubt the Chelsea owners are good at covering their tracks and papering over the cracks. I will remain extremely suspicious as will many others, whether you like it or not.

~Rebel~ · 27-06-2023 06:40PM

I think for the Chelsea discussion to go anywhere from here, a question has to be posed (that hasn't already been answered) that people can dig into and find inconsistencies around etc. I haven't seen one of those, but rather just general suspicions without questions.

For City for example the question was "how did they raise their market value to be industry leaders for sponsorship deals, seemingly without their global reach having grown to support that".

So here we need a; "How did chelsea do x y or z". We had that initially with the massive insane ludicrous stupid spending last winter, and then we got the answer - they used an amortization loophole that allowed them to leverage future spending by spreading the contracts over 8 years. Dumb, and risky, but we know the ins and outs of it now. Then there was the initial reported fees for Saudi clubs buying some of their players which raised questions about if PIF were somehow playing both sides - until we learned that actually the two players leaving for fees are leaving for heavy losses, and that PIF only own a max of 3% of Chelsea anyway (which makes sense - as if you were going to bail yourself out, you'd at least surely have kept the values intact instead of actively low-balling).

Personally, I really don't like Chelsea, and hate state ownership, but so far it just looks like they're being run idiotically by a western investment fund, rather than nefariously by a state. Let's see if there are any further questions we can poke into on them though.

ShamoBuc · 27-06-2023 06:45PM

Mod Note

@TheCitizen this discussion has been played out before and only went round in circles for various reasons and it shall not be revisited.

As per Mod Note at the end of the last thread....

Screenshot_20230627_193722_Samsung Internet.jpg

Just in case you or anyone else missed it.

Any issues, do not quote or reply on thread, PM instead.

doc_17 · 28-06-2023 03:54PM

Did Man City ever really want Rice? Or did they just make Arsenal pay £30m more than they wanted to?

28-06-2023 04:30PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120778562#Comment_120778562

Arsenal had bid more than what you're claiming and had it rejected before City did anything. You could argue City got about 10m added to the price, not 30m.

thebaz · 28-06-2023 06:13PM

Good for the league that Arsenal get Rice , my team will be battling relegation so would like to see Arsenl give it a proper go

SlickRic · 28-06-2023 06:14PM

at what point are Arsenal not underdogs, and it's actually failure if they don't win?

their spending has been incredible over the last few windows.

Arteta can have absolutely no complaints.

thebaz · 28-06-2023 06:15PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120779236#Comment_120779236

City have much stronger and deeper squad , ther second 11 would probably get top 4

SlickRic · 28-06-2023 06:42PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120779240#Comment_120779240

They've a ridiculous first 15 or 16.

They're not as deep as you think though.

Arsenal are at the stage where there won't be many excuses left. They've invested, and it's not like they've sold tons to fund it these windows.

Havertz, Rice and likely Timber already this one.

He's being backed to the hilt.

thebaz · 28-06-2023 06:56PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120779337#Comment_120779337

100% he's been backed - be interesting to see how they go - hopefully they can push City , and hopefully pip them to the title.

Necro · 28-06-2023 07:00PM

The expectations for Arsenal are obviously much higher than just reaching the CL via top 4 now. A title challenge is a minimum for next season. Beating City having lost the last 20 games to them is also now expected. Can that squad handle that sort of pressure from the off? Well that remains to be seen.

But as to when they stop being considered underdogs? Probably about the time they win something more substantial than an FA Cup. At the end of the next season it will be 20 years since they won a league title.

General Premier League Thread 2023-24 Mod Note in op 27/6/23 And 21/05/24

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