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Ulster Team Talk Thread IV... Go On My Henderson...

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Comments

  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I think we haven’t had the talent in the pack in years now and that hasn’t changed. Crothers, McNabney, McLoughlin, Wilson and McCormick looked great I thought underage and we really need them to come through. We need Izuchukwu to develop as well. We just can’t miss on many of these guys.

    French is someone who has it physically in the loose so i like that signing but as a developmental guy. I worry about him in the shorter term.

    Our style of play has to change. Most of what i would consider to be our elite talent is in the backs. That needs to be the focus. I’d like to look at Glasgow honestly and how they play for inspiration.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,114 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Glasgow scored more maul tries than any other team in the URC this season (13).


    Looks like we're already aping them.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Yea, but their phase play attack would suit us way more than off 9, off 9, off 9. So maybe, ape them more?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,114 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Our phase play has been a shambles this season, agreed.


    The question is, do we need new coaching staff to get that, though.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Just a new attack coach i think. Look at Munster and look at how aggressive and detailed they are now at the breakdown. We could get there in one year with the right hire. We would probably look crap at first but a change of direction is needed .



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,114 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Agree 100%. I don't think Munster have better players overall, but the quality of their coaching has shot through the roof. A really good attack coach and we'd be right back in the mix.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I think its close although i do like their young talent more and have done for a while, albeit stewart might be the best player of that group.

    if everyone was in the same camp and got to play together and learn the system, i think a combined team would end up looking like…

    1. Kitshoff (back up Loughman)
    2. Stewart (Herring)
    3. O Toole (Salanoa.. both high upside)
    4. Henderson (Ahern)
    5. Snyman (kleyn)
    6. Beirne (Ewers)
    7. POM (Hodnett)
    8. Coombes (Kendellan)
    9. Murray (Casey)
    10. Crowley (Carbery)
    11. Stockdale (Daly)
    12. McCloskey (Frisch)
    13. Hume (Nankivell)
    14. Balacoune (Nash)
    15. Lowry (Haley)

    Just my opinion so, that’s 9 starters for ulster. But 13 back ups for munster. And if i was going down to the third layer I think i’d also hit a lot of munster players. They also ha e guys like Edogbo who I just love and could easily have a massive season and push onto this list. I also think gleeson and Quinn quickly get into the mix. We do have Sheridan, Postlethwaite and Izzy who also have huge upside.

    This is strictly my opinion on how good i think guys are beyond coaching environments. I also prob missed someone really obvious.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,114 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    I would have a very similar take, actually, although if he is back as he was I'd have Addison followed by Lowry at FB, and Hodnett I would not rate higher than Timoney. I'd have Treadwell ahead of Kleyn as well. And some other quibbles - but I think we're agreed that it's the coaching. And possibly the OH position - that might be a player quality issue. Would Munster have done what they've done with Carbery?



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,146 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    They should announce it then. What are they waiting for? I know the players are away sunning themselves but the admin folks are probably beavering away like the rest of us. Or maybe they're waiting for Hendy to come back from whereever he is so they can do all the promo stuff.

    Keeping Henderson is important, not because he plays a lot, he really doesn't, but because he is the captain and probably our best known player. Losing him would have sent out a terrible signal.



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  • Administrators Posts: 55,710 Admin ✭✭✭✭✭awec


    It doesn't sound like my info was accurate. Yet to sign according to Petrie.

    Wouldn't be surprised if his injury record and age has seen the IRFU low ball him, with the lure of the WC as leverage. His importance to team Ireland has taken a bit of a hit the past 12 months.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,114 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    I wouldn't be surprised if he starts to feature for Ireland less and less, which might mean that he lines out at Ravenhill a bit more.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Sounds crazy but if a guy isn’t on a central deal, i’d almost rather they played more for us and ireland was on the backburner.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,122 ✭✭✭Shehal


    One of the big differences is with Munster, especially against Stormers & Glasgow in the KO stage, is you just always get the feeling that whether it be hook or by crook they will find a way to win. I never get that feeling with Ulster and if anything you feel they will find a way to lose. Yes sure Ulster have won games at the death but alot of the time it seems to be by accident rather than design.



  • Posts: 2,692 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    I think that in both their wins, that’s an example of executing what they were training all year. They tried to play a ball possession game and in the end that allowed them to work a drop goal and a try. I don’t see why we couldn’t do that. We probably need a different 10.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,114 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    While not disagreeing on Ulster, that point about Munster is pure marketing fluff, in my humble opinion.


    I didn't think they'd do it by hook or by crook last season when they came up to Ravenhill and were made to look p1sh-poor, or even when we beat them in Europe way back when in Thomond. They've had a remarkable, enviable resurgence this season, but they've spent years decidedly not getting it done by hook or by crook.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,114 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Wasn't Addison club captain? I wonder if his leadership might make a bit of a difference next season.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    I'm surprised he wasn't released. His injury profile is awful.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,122 ✭✭✭Shehal


    Is it? I never said previous years (they consistently weren't getting it done in previous seasons I agree) but this season and in particularly the last month or 2 they've shown signs that they can.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,122 ✭✭✭Shehal


    Yes Ulster absolutely need a new 10, for all the players they either bring in or are rumoured to be bringing I always find it a mystery how they don't mention the need for a new 10. The likes of BB and IM are just not good enough for a club that has aspirations of winning trophies.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,114 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    I think it's something that's been said about Munster for years, and has been decidedly wide of the mark. If you're talking about the last two months, then fair enough. It just didn't sound you were comparing Munster to Ulster solely of the last two months, though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,140 ✭✭✭Digifriendly


    Let's be honest here. Munster have been coached brilliantly and turned the season around in remarkable fashion. Dan McFarland has failed to get the best out of Ulster when it really matters.

    Also Munster have best supporter base in Europe and as mentioned much better OHs than Ulster.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,114 ✭✭✭Paul Smeenus


    Yep. After years of mediocrity, Munster have had a brilliant last few months. They really landed on their feet when it turned out they had a great head coach in waiting when their under-acheivng head coach - who they had recently given an extension to -abandoned them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    Another aspect in relation to Munster is the quality of players coming through the academy. Especially the forwards. Kendellen and Hodnett are both fantastic players. They both will probably be Ireland internationals. McAnn is the only Ulster back row that's come through recently and he's not as good.

    Munster have serious prospects coming through in Quinn and Edogbo. Ulster seem to struggle with producing forwards. That said, I reckon Wilson will be a good player. Sheridan should be good and McNabney looks a find.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,146 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Why do we not produce out halfs?

    Lowry was the last one and he has become a FB, before that it was Paddy Jackson and we don't need to discuss what happened there, but he came into the team 11 years ago.

    Are there any 10s in the Academy at all? We're always focusing on how we don't produce many forwards, but the same applies to 10s.

    Hooker and wing seem to be our gift to the world, and even then there is always someone better from down south (or NZ or Australia in the case of wing)...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    It's strange that. James Humphreys is in the academy. I don't know how he's doing. Then there's Madigan and Flannery who rarely play?

    There's always decent to very good backs. One is retiring at 26 years old.

    Petrie isn't really doing much better than the last administrators. I don't see the Vermuellen signing as a win. An aged 8 with a ton of miles under the belt and probably on a good salary. Also Carter, certainly not much quality regardless of being an Oz international.

    Would Conor Fitz be a better option than Madigan? Or Flannery? He'd be fairly cheap.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,413 ✭✭✭Locke_Lamora


    Vermuelen was a great signing at short notice given what happened with Coetzee. His defence and lineout work were essential and always came up with turnovers at crucial moments. Carried better than just about anyone else in our pack despite his age.

    we would’ve lost more games without him, so it’s hard to frame him as anything other than a good signing. Who else could we have gotten that was available?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,146 ✭✭✭✭bilston


    Ive never been that impressed by Conor Fitzgerald.

    But the point is why do we need to rely on a 4th choice out half from another province (Flannery) or a reject from Munster (French)?! Why aren't we producing players ourselves. We've been talking about this for 20 years...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,005 ✭✭✭jacothelad


    We do produce players, they get in to the academy but never get out, never get games and wither away.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,878 ✭✭✭RichieRich_89


    I thought Johnny McPhillips was a good player. It surprised me when he was let go - if indeed he was let go instead of deciding to move on himself.

    I wonder how Stewart Moore would get on at outhalf. He's a very gifted player.



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