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Ireland Team Talk XII: Farrell's First Fifteen

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Comments

  • #23042
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,343 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Would you want any of those 4 players to be starting 15 for all of our RWC games if Keenan pulls a hamstring or tears a ligament in one of the warm up games or in a training session?

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • #23043
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    JOB is a very good full back. Not sure when it was decided otherwise.



  • #23044
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120677894#Comment_120677894

    I think those 4 players will know what they're doing to a very high standard if they're called on. At a certain point adding extra bodies dilutes the quality of coaching, instruction and match-condition training each player gets. The coaches obviously feel the threshold for that for the squad is 42.

    Would you rather we sent a less well drilled squad to France so your favourite players get a set of training gear?



  • #23045
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,343 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    No,I notice you didn't say that you'd be comfortable playing one of those 4 players out of position for an entire rugby world cup.

    Every other position apart from 7 and 15 has redundancy

    7 and 15 are specialists

    Others can fill those roles at a lower standard, but why take that risk?

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • #23046
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,343 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    I mean,even for training, running drills where there's only 1 specialist 7 or 15,means you're not getting proper feedback on how successful those drills are against the best opposition in the world

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



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  • #23047
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,343 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Munster are a much better team with Hodnett at 7. POM can play 7 too to a very high standard, but then he's not playing his best position (6).

    When Leinster are playing knockout rugby, VDF is on that team.

    If Leinster had played Keenan in the semi final against Munster, they might have beaten us. Instead they played Jimmy O Brien at 15 and he barely had any impact on the game. Why did they play him at 15? Because they didn't want to risk not having Keenan for the Heineken cup final

    Haley was incredibly good in that game, Jimmy O Brien was anonymous

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • #23048
    phog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,048 ✭✭✭✭phog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120678054#Comment_120678054

    Would you rather we sent a less well drilled squad to France so your favourite players get a set of training gear?

    Adding one or two top quality players to a squad of 42 isn't going to make that squad less well drilled despite a few posters wanting us all to think it might.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • #23049
    phog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,048 ✭✭✭✭phog


    Any of the anoraks here want to list the RWC winners and what size squads they had in the lead up to pre RWC warm up games.

    Any of them want to list how many are in the current Top 5 or 6 teams squads



  • #23050
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120678184#Comment_120678184

    Then the mystery of why the squad isn't 44 players will continue.



  • #23051
    phog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,048 ✭✭✭✭phog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120678027#Comment_120678027

    Yes he is but he is not as good as Keenan or Haley.



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  • #23052
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120678077#Comment_120678077

    I'm just idly speculating, I don't *actually* think I know how international rugby teams train.



  • #23053
    phog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,048 ✭✭✭✭phog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120678195#Comment_120678195

    If he named a 43, 44 or 45 man squad would you have been saying this bullshit about lessening the quality of the pre RWC training?

    Or did this size squad only become the optimum number after we heard Farrell opted for 42.

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • #23054
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,343 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Jimmy O Brien is a fabulous player who will probably make the 33 man squad

    I think Haley should be in the training camp to replace Keenan only if he gets injured

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • #23055
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 20,606 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120678222#Comment_120678222

    I'd be saying the same thing I said above, that the squad was the size the coaches think it needs to be.

    And then when people whinge endlessly about certain omissions I'd make the same observations that they're obviously surplus to needs and would dilute the existing squad.

    Then I'd put my anorak on and wonder to myself how some folks get so wound up over chat.



  • #23056
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,343 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    And post RWC unless we win, there will be plenty of receipts to cash in

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • #23057
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    Fun fact, this time four years ago we named 44 players, only two uncapped... Mike Haley and Jean Kleyn



  • #23058
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,343 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Ireland have the players to win this RWC.

    We've dominated club rugby in the best leagues with mostly home qualified players

    Not making a final should be seen as a failure

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • #23059
    phog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,048 ✭✭✭✭phog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120678238#Comment_120678238

    It's that simple.



  • #23060
    phog
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,048 ✭✭✭✭phog


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120678239#Comment_120678239

    Ah yes, the auld moaning jibe.

    Brilliant

    Post edited by Boards.ie: Mike on


  • #23061
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭Former Former Former



    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120678090#Comment_120678090

    Once the 6N came and went, Haley and others had an uphill battle to force their way in.

    Unfortunately for Haley, Farrell just doesn't rate him and even more unfortunately, post the 6N, Farrell would have seen a few games which might have confirmed his opinion.



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  • #23062
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,343 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120678282#Comment_120678282

    So basically Farrell picked the team last year and nothing will change his mind in 2023

    Ok.

    Has that ever actually worked?

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • #23063
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,343 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120678282#Comment_120678282

    Unfortunately for Haley,and also Ireland

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • #23064
    Former Former Former
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,639 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120678293#Comment_120678293

    I didn't say that at all.

    You've seen guys like Crowley, Stewart, TOT, McCarthy and Osborne earn their places in the last few months alone. Equally squad regulars like Timoney, Larmour, Hume, Baloucoune and Lowry got the chop. This squad has absolutely not been locked down at all.

    Farrell isn't one to show excessive loyalty and he's not afraid to bring in new guys from the provincial depth charts.

    If Haley can't do what the coach wants of him, then that's on him.



  • #23065
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,343 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    If Farrell is picking on merit, then why is Kilcoyne in the squad?

    Post edited by Akrasia on

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • #23066
    ersatz
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,093 ✭✭✭ersatz


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120678072#Comment_120678072

    Come on. 1, 2, 3, 9, 10, 13 at east are inherently specialist roles (some legally). No coach in their right mind is bringing 2 players who only play 15 to the World Cup.



  • #23067
    Dubinusa
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,819 ✭✭✭Dubinusa


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120678322#Comment_120678322

    Yep! Why indeed.



  • #23068
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120678077#Comment_120678077

    Specialist or not, if VDF is unavailable, I'd still prefer POM over Hodnett at this point in time. To be quite honest I don't think there's much traditionally specialist about VDF. If he played 6 and POM 7 I doubt it would make any substantial difference.

    For a full back, 'specialist' has both positive and negative connotations. Someone with a complete FB skillset should really have no problem playing on the wing and should have most of the tools to play 10 or centre.

    FWIW I would have picked both Haley and Hodnett (or Connors or Penny or Timoney*) and just had a slightly larger training squad but I can see the logic in forcing the players to adapt to a situation where positional changes are forced.

    *He seems to be able to play any back row position but is nominally a 7



  • #23069
    pickarooney
    Moderators, Arts Moderators Posts: 36,124 Mod ✭✭✭✭pickarooney


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120678192#Comment_120678192

    I don't have an anorak, but France will be announcing their 42-player squad on the 21st of June.

    If Melvyn Jaminet makes it, calls for Mike Haley will be vindicated. If Brice Dulin makes it, Galthié may have finally copped on that he's the best (specialist) FB in France.



  • #23070
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,343 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120678349#Comment_120678349

    I never said he should

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



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  • #23071
    clsmooth
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,026 ✭✭✭clsmooth


    Kleyn or Haley aren’t going to offer a huge amount at international level although they’re fine players at provincial level.

    Loughman and Hodnett are a bit unlucky as are Larmour and Baloucoune. Stockdale and Kilcoyne on the other hand are lucky to get in.

    Earls is also fortunate to get in (due to age and recent injury profile) but we know Farrell has a huge amount of time for him and he’ll bring some more experience to the training squad.

    Overall I’d be happy with the training squad.



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