Madeleine McCann

The suspect, Bruekner (not sure of spelling).

Is he the same suspect that is accused if raping ths Irish woman, alone in an apartment, tied her down like a 'spit roast' as she described it in her own words? He let her go and she ran naked through the apartment block and found a group of men who gave her clothes.

If it's the same suspect, that rapist was very forensically aware and careful.

If he abducted MM, he would have well covered his tracks.

Funnily enough, it was presumably an adult who entered the McCanns apartment and they should have known better than to commit their crime.

Yeah if you find that funny you are beyond help.

Anyway you will learn that in the grown up world theres bad people that will commit crimes DESPITE being "not supposed to".

Anyone actually believing crime doesn't happen because its not supposed to is infantile in their naiveity.

Insurance companies laugh in your face if you've left your house/car unlocked because you were a fùcking idiot. That doesn't absolve the burglar who commited the actual crime, but it doesnt change the mind numbing stupidity of those irresponsible in the first place.

If you think I was trying to be funny, think again.

If it is possible to take out an insurance policy on one's daughter which would pay out if she disappeared, perhaps the McCanns would have trouble getting the insurers to pay out, but we are talking about a criminal matter, and if the person responsible for this crime is ever caught, I can assure you it will not be thrown out of court because of the complaints some posters have here about the McCanns' parenting on the night in question.

Yes the same person.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11306257/Irish-woman-raped-Madeleine-McCann-suspect-speaks-charged.html

@reclose

Yes. Children spent all day playing outside in the 80s with parents having only a guess at where they may be at any one time. That did happen. It's been one of the most ridiculous arguments on this thread that it didn't.

Both were cases of victim blaming, as discussed.

Other people talk about having dinner at the Tapas restaurant as if they were boozing it up on the other side of town. It's a mealy-mouthed tabloid talking point. If people find the point troublesome, that's their problem.

Children playing outside is not the same as two year olds and a 3 year old being left alone in an apartment at night time while the parents socialise.

You can’t honestly tell me that’s the same thing?

They aren’t both a case of victim blaming. They are different scenarios. Your scenario is the equivalent to people blaming Madeleine. They aren’t.

Nobody is saying they were across town. They did leave the apartment unlocked while at a restaurant. They had no view of who was coming or going.

You admitted a few comments back that they had some responsibility for what happened.

@reclose

The point about letting kids out to play in the 80s was a rebuttal to this fanciful idea that standards of parenting have always been the same, i.e. the assertion that even in the 80s, parents wouldn't have done anything like the McCanns did. In actual fact, parenting was more lax back then in various aspects, but in time, when things go wrong with that, lessons get learned.

They are. The McCann parents are victims as well as Madeleine. They are her parents.

At a restaurant 55 metres away as the crow flies, performing regular checks by themselves or their friends. They thought this would be enough. This turned out not to be the case due to a circumstance quite out of the ordinary. The reason I repeatedly make this point is to counter the 'criminal negligence' heads who conveniently omit it every time.

I can assure you it was never the done thing to leave 2 year olds and a 3 year old alone in an unlocked apartment while the parents went socialising from the 80s onwards.

If anyone did that then they were an irresponsible parent.

They may also be victims but your rape scenario wasn’t like for like and you know it.

No need to reply on the third point as I also agree they should not be charged for it.

@reclose

And we're back to degrees of a thing. I agree that parents in virtually any time probably wouldn't have left children home alone to go out socialising if that took place across town for the whole night, but 55 metres away as the crow flies with regular checks? Very much a different proposition. Considering parents in the 80s used to commonly smoke indoors around their young children (ignorance of the dangers of it, and I use this as an example of looser parenting standards), I don't think this would have raised an eyebrow at all, except perhaps for being a little overly conscientious relative to what the perceived dangers were.

The simple point I make with the comparison is that it is wrong to focus blame on the victims of a crime and their decisions leading up to it, when the far greater part in it is the criminal. It's an ugly mindset to have.

You're the one introducing an irrelevant insurance analogy which I shouldn't even waste my time refuting, but hey it's easy to get one's brain tired from using all those 'big words' and the air must get pretty thin up on that high horse, so I'll forgive you.

No one I know would leave children that young alone in an unlocked house even if it’s “just” 55 metres.

Smoking, won’t reply to that. It’s not relevant.

There’s a difference between focussing blame and being able to acknowledge the parents actions were a contributing factor.

The abductor looking for a victim and the parents leaving the children on their own both had to be present for this crime to happen.

As I thought I had made pains to point out, the smoking thing is to illustrate the point that parents were not as conscious of, or ignorant of, the dangers toward their kids back then as they are now, and because of that, I think a lot of parents back then wouldn't have been overly concerned about doing exactly as the McCanns did. Yes, it's true. Standards of parenting were different in the past and we know that the McCanns were not the only ones leaving their children alone in an apartment (and to hear some tell it, it's this aspect which is bad enough).

I fully acknowledge that the McCanns did the things they did and provided the person or persons unknown with an opportunity to do what they did. This doesn't necessarily make them criminally liable, however. Just imperfect people, not making the wisest decisions, and also having this horrible unknown circumstance. It seems that too many people are not satisfied with just acknowledging events as they're known to have occurred and have to go from that to criminal charges against them or even speculating on whether they actively played a part. People need to put up or shut up on that, whoever's partaking.