This week's EV bargain that I'm not buying

ELM327 · 23-05-2023 10:07AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630458#Comment_120630458

Could fail on rear suspension imbalance, due to the setup thats a risk on older leafs. Out of warranty its an expensive repair too.

Stevie2001 · 23-05-2023 11:11AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630571#Comment_120630571

Yeah it's throwaway like any EV out of warranty, but battery pack is worth a bit

It's fine spending 2.5k, imagine buying a 25k EV out of warranty and power unit fails etc

23-05-2023 11:39AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630571#Comment_120630571

It depends on the mechanic if it's expensive or not. It's basically: Remove wheel, brake caliper, loosen 4 bolts, insert a shim. Assemble. I did above on my drive last year DIY and it cost €0.50 in supplies.

ELM327 · 23-05-2023 11:43AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630835#Comment_120630835

Imagine buying a 25k ICE and the engine fails. Its the same risk if out of warranty and similar cost to fit a new engine.

That leaf has around 2.5k of batteries, the car is free. If it fails you can take out the battery pack and reconnect it in 48v series to use as home storage, and sell the rolling shell for parts, profit.

Same as ICE cars, theres often more money in the parts than in the car as a car.

ELM327 · 23-05-2023 11:45AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630955#Comment_120630955

I'm quite happy to take on minor works on ICE cars, I changed a water pump on my previous Jag S Type for instance and always serviced my own cars. It was a must, when I was running a random diesel auction car bought for a few hundred quid on a shoestring doing 50-60k miles a year.

However I'd be reticent to tackle anything on an EV. I am an avid rich rebuilds follower! We need someone like him or james and kate to open here.

kirving · 23-05-2023 12:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630975#Comment_120630975

It's generally not the same risk/cost though - of course there are stories of full engine swaps costing a fortune at the main dealer (as it happens I was waiting for a part in BMW last week and heard discussion of a full swap at €€€€€) but the vast majority of even major issues can be fixed at a fraction of main dealer cost.

The same just isn't true of EV's, at least for now. Manufacturers are reluctant / refuse to certify others to work on their battery systems due to the risk of fire damaging their brand, software locks are more prevalent and more difficult to bypass then before, special equipment if generally required to work on EV's, and in Ireland at least, indy skills are few and far between.

The customer often has no choice but to go to the manufacturer, and pay top rates for basic labor. Case in point. BMW want to charge me €200 for replacement bolts. They are not torqued to any real level, they do not stretch, but I have no choice but to pay that, because it's faster for the BMW technician to throw the old ones in the bin as they're removed, than to put them in a box. So much for saving the environment....

ELM327 · 23-05-2023 12:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120631151#Comment_120631151

And when the same options are there for EV like there are for ICE (independant specialists) people wont have to go to main dealers and the cost of fixing batteries wont be as prohibitive as it is now. Main dealers be main dealers, you know?

Stevie2001 · 23-05-2023 12:41PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630975#Comment_120630975

Not comparable at all, as said above by Kirving the skillset doesn't exist in this country to repair EV's economically, no ones gonna dismantle an out of warranty hand built Model S and change drive units etc, your gonna be stuck with a shell or have to pay the manufacturer/main dealer.

While the polish mechanic down the road will do an engine/turbo swap easy peasy

Do you know of any decent places to repair my electric lawnmower or electric powerwasher? I know plenty that work with engines

Stevie2001 · 23-05-2023 12:55PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120631218#Comment_120631218

How do you know that will materialise? Never did for electric lawnmowers, powerwashers etc, while that industry still busy for ICE one's

Any country you know of that has EV specialists everywhere like ICE?

Padre_Pio · 23-05-2023 01:33PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120631316#Comment_120631316

The same people who repair ICE tools also repair electric ones.

Both are simply a case of "find the damaged part and swap it for a good one".

At the end of the day the market will meet the demand. Expecting a whole industry to develop in anticipation of EVs coming off warranty is wishful thinking.

I suppose people said the same a hundred years ago. Few mechanics and thousands of blacksmiths.

sk8board · 23-05-2023 01:36PM

Swapping an ice engine is incredibly rare as a proportion of the 2.5m cars in the national fleet. It will take a few years to understand where we are with EV replacements. I think leaf is an outlier, thankfully.

A neighbour had a 131 massive mileage VW Passat 2.0D that needed a new engine just a month or two ago and said it was €3.5k for the engine and €2k to install, roughly. Independent mechanic. Im guessing those engines are literally 10-a-penny.

bear in mind most low mileage engines for replacements come from cars written off in a rear end accidents, with engines very well cocooned under the bonnet, whereas with an EV it’s going to be a lot more difficult for a completely undamaged battery to come from a crashed car.

ELM327 · 23-05-2023 01:51PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120631316#Comment_120631316

Norway and California in the US have, UK have a few too but not everywhere.

User1998 · 23-05-2023 01:52PM

€5.5k is expensive enough for an engine swap. I replaced a 2013 Polo engine for €1k all in parts & labour.

To be fair I think a battery swap on a Prius is only €450 or so.

...Ghost... · 23-05-2023 02:19PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630571#Comment_120630571

That only affects the early Sunderland models from 2013/14. That 2012 is a Jap car. I reckon the heater is gone on it though. Very common fault. Very expensive and hard to fix.

ELM327 · 23-05-2023 02:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120631751#Comment_120631751

It affected the lizard cars too (132 - 2018), I had one!

...Ghost... · 23-05-2023 02:29PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120631759#Comment_120631759

Really? What year was yours?

I thought it was only the 13/14 and a few 15 models. By the time the 30kWh variant came out, the issue was reportedly history. My 2014 model needed the shims. My 2012 didn't. My MILs 2014 almost needed shims. My SILs 30kWh didn't.

At least we can establish the 2012 listed here doesn't need one, thanks to the Japs rather than the Brits building it.

ELM327 · 23-05-2023 02:58PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120631789#Comment_120631789

Mine was a 142 24kWh, the lizard pack which replaced the earliest chemistry (ie the cars that dont show SOC in percentages). It wasnt an issue in the 30kWh pack cars, so obviously mine was one of the last. Now it didnt go completely or anything, passed the NCT, but the guy said the wear levels were consistent with the known issue and I should get it done as a preventative measure.

...Ghost... · 23-05-2023 03:08PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120631913#Comment_120631913

Yeah, just what I thought. They were all new chemistry (Lizard) Sunderland cars from 2013/14 manufacturing. Some were registered in 2015.

My 141 failed NCT. I got a new tyre and it barely passed. I had bought mine in the UK with a warranty package. I had to fight to get them to pay for the work here, as they tried to weasel out of it, citing I didn't have a UK address. As it was sold to me with an Irish address, I didn't take it lying down and the garage in the UK agreed to cover it and chase the insurer themselves.

23-05-2023 03:36PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120631789#Comment_120631789

I'm afraid ours is 161 30 kWh and the rear measured -12 m/km on NCT. It's not a fail as the limit is 18 but it was wearing one of the rear tyres quite quickly.

But as I said earlier it's potentially a very cheap fix (or free DIY) if you find an old school mechanic that can shim it. As far as I know once shimmed it won't ever need more work unless you hit something.

KCross · 23-05-2023 03:41PM

I had the rear tyre wear problem on a 151 Leaf. I also imported from the UK but no issues getting it fixed under warranty here. They replaced the axle on mine but the shim kit should do just fine as well for a much cheaper out of warranty fix.

And as above, it bled into some early 30kWh Leaf's as well but it was fixed thereafter (I'd say build dates from 2016 onwards should be OK). It was also a hit and miss thing... Not every car experienced it for some reason, but enough of them did to warrant checking it when buying one.

Gumbo · 23-05-2023 07:57PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120630441#Comment_120630441

Depends on the driver 👀👀

Gumbo · 23-05-2023 08:01PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120631244#Comment_120631244

Power washers.

https://www.serlex.ie/pages/repair-service

Lawn Mowers.

https://www.glasnevinappliances.ie/lawnmower-repair

kirving · 23-05-2023 08:23PM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120631521#Comment_120631521

If we compare it to electronic hardware for example, say 30 years ago there were plenty of people who specialised in electronic repair and who actually desoldered and repaired/replaced specific parts on a circuit board, but as tech moved on (no issue with that btw!) it become a case of dropping in a new PCB at somewhat increased cost.

But now the likes of Apple have coded and encrypted every swappable component so it's exceptionally difficult for anyone else to do.

The technical and economic barriers to entry for indy's repairing EV's is one thing, but encrypting stuff to lock out indy's is very bad form.

The best we can hope for IMO is that A) defacto standards are agreed up by OEM's and the Tier 1's who design the packs and people can be trained to some common level, and B) regulators step in quickly with Right to Repair legislation.

Sadly I don't think independent mechanics have a strong enough lobby group, and for the most part consumers aren't going to step up and complain like American farmers did to John Deere.

SteelyDanJalapeno · 23-05-2023 10:49PM

24 new posts and a not a bargain in sight

ELM327 · 24-05-2023 08:37AM

25 including your post.

This might be the cheapest Lizard pack leaf I've seen.

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/nissan-leaf-2014electric/33945756

unkel · 24-05-2023 09:25AM

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120634211#Comment_120634211

From a dealer with a warranty. That's a bargain although you won't get much more than a few hundred off, so it won't be the cheapest lizard. This 2015 (!) should be yours for no more than €5k cash. Big miles though and a bit of a banger.

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/nissan-leaf-24kw/34087640

ELM327 · 24-05-2023 09:26AM

Oh now I want that leaf! 300k km! Wow

unkel · 24-05-2023 09:32AM

In fact loads of bargains out there. How about a Hyundai Ioniq 28kWh, out of all warranties and high mileage, but brand new 2 year NCT and asking just €13k? That would be a super buy for about €12k

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/hyundai-ioniq/33268912

slave1 · 24-05-2023 09:36AM

HUGE fuel savings on those cars, early days would have been years free from ESB

unkel · 24-05-2023 09:38AM

Zoe, €6k. Probably yours for €5k

You'd have to pay out the battery lease though. That's expensive even on old Renaults, despite what some people recently claimed here. €2400 for this car. Big benefit of the Zoes is that they can charge at the full 22kW at the about 1500-2000 slow charge points dotted across Ireland everywhere and mostly not in use these days. So if you have time, it is not restricted to being a city car

https://www.donedeal.ie/cars-for-sale/renault-zoe-2015/34121757

This week's EV bargain that I'm not buying

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