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Time for a zero refugee policy? - *Read OP for mod warnings - updated 11/5/24*

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,373 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    I beg your pardon . I think it's just that so many conflate economic migrants with refugees and asylum seekers. I know that is not correct .

    However explain why the Irish Refugee Council begs to differ also ....

    • An ‘asylum seeker’ is a person who has made an application to be a refugee. An ‘international protection applicant’ is a different term but refers to the same situation. The Irish Refugee Council generally uses the phrase ‘person seeking protection’ or ‘international protection applicant’. When speaking to a wider audience that may not be familiar with these terms we use the phrase asylum seeker.  

    😋



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,373 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Oh thanks ..I don't !

    But I am way more sceptical of some publications than others. Especially those that never have a good word for anyone.

    I do agree with your earlier post btw . Well said.

    Can't find it now however?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭trashcan


    I’m not sure I see where the Refugee Council is disagreeing with me ? The term “International Protection” is used as it also covers Subsidiary Protection, which is a concept introduced in 2006 and brought into a single process with asylum applications in the 2015 International Protection Act.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭trashcan


    You claimed you were “educating him” while also displaying your own lack of knowledge on the subject 😏



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,232 ✭✭✭waterwelly


    Do you believe that people tell lies to get their asylum approved?

    Or do you believe that 100% of people granted asylum have been totally honest?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,356 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    You think the Irish Times has integrity? This being the same Irish Times that recently ran an opinion article that can be summed up as "Lol, posh boys got molested".

    That publication was disgraceful and there was no apology.

    Integrity? Lol.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,373 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    I don't think 100% are honest , no . But they go through a fairly rigorous process so its probably one can reasonably expect that most are telling the truth or they would not be accepted.

    Do you expect everything in life to be 100% , WW?

    Nothing is 100% perfect in this life , did nobody tell you that?

    Post edited by Goldengirl on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 689 ✭✭✭atticu


    Sorry, but there is a huge amount of confusion over what you have posted.

    Asylum seekers? What about people who have left their home country as economic refugees and are seeking asylum in another country?

    Asylum seekers? What about people who have left their home country as people being persecuted for their beliefs and are seeking asylum in another country?

    Asylum seekers? What about people who have left their home country because they were being persecuted for their political beliefs and are seeking asylum in another country?


    Refugees: What about people who have left their home country as economic refugees and are seeking refuge in another country?

    Refugees: What about people who have left their home country as people being persecuted for their beliefs and are seeking refuge in another country?

    Refugees: What about people who have left their home country because they were being persecuted for their political beliefs and are seeking refuge in another country?


    I could go on, but I think that you might see the confusion.


    By the way, I have had this discussion with a moderator, but they asked me not to post the PMs here.

    I think that they are as confused as you, and I don't blame them, this is a minefield and we do not know where to start.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭dmakc


    How rigorous would you think, when even the media's poster boy asylum seeker is having a laugh

    image.png




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,356 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    60% get their application for international protection rejected. Then the fun and appeals begin. This goes on so long that at the end the argument can be made that the individual has been here so long that they should be allowed stay (family ties, roots, a job) - and then they get indefinite leave to remain.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,373 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    That is not what I said and if you don't like it don't read it . I don't care if you do or you don't agree with every article in every paper you read. It is consistency I was talking about . Lol indeed.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,373 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Seriously?

    Again if you want to ask something real maybe, but this is just whataboutery .

    Contact the IPO , quickly !

    Btw where did you get that link from ? How can anybody judge its veracity or anything else if you post stuff without a proper link?

    Did you write it yourself ?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,772 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    But since when does anyone in Ireland have a say over who moves into their area, or into their town or village or onto their street or in next door? A bunch of six drug dealers or armed robbers could move in next door to you tomorrow morning and there's virtually nothing you can do about it under law. I'm not sure where people are getting the idea they have a total power of veto over who lives in their community alongside them : this power of veto has never existed in the 100 years of the state.

    For example, have you any say over the 200 people that live nearest to you, even if they were to include criminals or 'neighbours from hell'?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,373 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Yes probably .

    Should make the process quicker or limit appeals from safe countries as have been done to an extent. Have to appeal within 10 days or get out .

    It's not a perfect system and could be better I agree .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,373 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Just to reply to this, their gun murder numbers have been climbing since the mid 2000s but the far right managed to 'persuade ' some voters that it was refugees who started arriving in great numbers there, in 2015 .

    Gangland/ drug related crime .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,373 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,356 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Yes, we should absolutely be making the process a lot faster, with 24hour courts if needed to get through the backlog. Logically, dealing with the fraudsters quickly is the fastest way to get out of this mess. Unfortunately for us, there is well funded (largely State funded) vested interest groups that depend on the status quo remaining.

    So instead of shipping fraudsters out we have a government scrambling to find and over occupy any building that's half fit to hold people - with or without community consent. It's disgraceful on many levels.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,450 ✭✭✭trashcan


    Its all in the 2015 Act. Basically you are entitled to Refugee status if you have a well founded fear of persecution in your home country on the basis of your nationality, race, religion, political opinion, or membership of a particular social group ( which is where gender, lgbt etc come in.) You are entitled to Subsidiary Protection if you don’t reach the refugee threshold but nevertheless would face serious harm in your home country. Serious harm for the purposes of the act is death penalty or execution, torture or inhuman and degrading treatment, or would be in danger due to indiscriminate violence in a situation of internal or international armed conflict. That’s the textbook definitions. If you don’t meet those, you don’t get granted.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,356 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    You don't get to decide who moves in but you do get input into the types of development that are allowed to proceed.

    There is no planning permission required however around these changes of use. God forbid you use your own property as an Airbnb, but when the State wants to shove as many humans as it can fit into a three bed, you just have to suck it up?



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,040 ✭✭✭✭Red Silurian


    No such thing as fake news on the internet is there?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,772 ✭✭✭✭Strazdas


    I completely agree with the idea of consulting with communities well in advance - it's only common courtesy and probably ensures that the move is more likely to succeed - but members of the community seeking to physically blockade the area and stop people from arriving is surely overstepping the mark. Try and do that with someone moving in to the house next door to you and you would probably be arrested by the Gardai.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭dmakc


    Any further along finding how asylum seekers are a race?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,566 ✭✭✭dmakc


    People aren't objecting to someone / a family moving in next door though, this is 40+ men into a house which wasn't built for said purpose



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,356 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Can the Government expect common courtesy from communities, when it's trampling over them and not engaging in any, let alone meaningful consultation?

    So the problem is though that if you don't take these more extreme measures, you won't get heard. Blockades aren't nice and I'm sure there is some division and dissent within the group in inch over that strategy - however it was a successful one. A nice polite protest at the side of the road will be ignored and protesting outside Leinster House is a total waste of time and energy. If the people of Inch had done that there would be 60 men in those three, three bed houses tonight.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,070 ✭✭✭ArthurDayne


    Oh yes, people have every right to object — but other people also have every right to point out when the objections veer from rational, grounded concerns about the effects of migration into generalised fearmongering, typecasting and hate-baiting towards refugees. Nobody is saying that the conditions are ideal, nobody is saying that the challenges and risks should be overlooked — but it’s the tendency of certain people to bend over backwards to vilify refugees at every turn and to incessantly seek every example that can possibly be found of refugee doing some bad thing somewhere which turns away the reasonable people who might otherwise agree on the problems.

    That’s before you even start to engage in the argument that it’s supremely self-defeating to be scared of migrants not integrating or sitting around doing nothing when one is also engaged in the business of protesting their mere presence and living in a constant state of being convinced that they are just horny, bored males who decided to leave their lives and homeland behind to get sex and wreck the place.

    Yes, be concerned about your neighbourhood by all means, point out the problems with the way and manner in which refugees are distributed across the country, but protesting against and vilifying these people themselves is self-defeating.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,187 ✭✭✭Montage of Feck


    Obviously since that commie tyrant Lula has seized power, Brazil has become a cold place for fanboys of Jair Bolsonaro. Lol.

    🙈🙉🙊



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,373 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Yes agree except for the conspiracy thing ...

    And that they need consent from the community. They don't but it would be better .



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 17,373 ✭✭✭✭Goldengirl


    Thanks but it was for @atticu . Should see it clearer now anyway 😊



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 8,356 ✭✭✭MrMusician18


    Describing the conditions as 'not ideal' is a gross understatement. They are extremely below standard and extremely overcrowded. I'm not sure how a three bed holiday home accommodating 20 people could come close to the department of justices standard of 4.5m2 of personal space per person.

    So we know that the accommodation is grossly unfit for purpose. So what happens then when you mix bored people in such conditions? Why should the people who have lived in that community peacefully have to put up with that?

    In any case, we only have this problem due to the Justice department (under several ministers) absolute refusal to take the bull by the horns and sort out this mess by introducing s streamlined process to get the fraudsters out of the system within a few weeks.



This discussion has been closed.
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