Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie

Is it worth my while getting a battery?

2»

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,397 ✭✭✭Fingleberries


    I'm trying to figure out the maths on a system I'm planning, based on roof space I can install a 2.1kWp array, but I'm planning to get a 6kWh battery to take advantage of these same low cost hours from the grid.

    Would it make financial sense to charge the batteries to 100% each night at 13c, even during the good solar months (Apr-Sept, give or take), and then when the PV kicks in during daylight hours to keep batteries topped up as much as possible from PV while using solar + battery in the house and sell the excess back to the grid (EI, currently around 20c)? In the winter months, it would make practical sense because a 2.1kWp system is not going to do much, so we could at least use the batteries to soften the amount of peak rate hours we use.

    It's not going to make me rich, but would it make sense to do this?

    Could it damage batteries?

    Is there a way to then discharge anything remaining battery charge down to the max DoD 'back to the grid' before 2am and starting the cycle again? (batteries will be LFP with 90%DoD for 6,000 cycles according to specs)

    Thanks in advance



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,990 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I don't think many inverters will allow you to discharge the battery to the grid, it's extremely inefficient because you lose around 20% of the energy you put in

    Also if you aren't on a smart meter then it'll make no difference as you'll be getting deemed export

    You can oversize the battery to make use of the night rate, some of the folks here have done that. For me it's taken the payback period from 10+ years down to 6 years

    I've only gotten solar this year, so I guess we'll see how well it works out

    You can figure out the payback for it and see if it makes sense. There's a few different ways but here's what I did (apologies in advance for the spiel, but boards f**ks up numbered lists when I use them):

    First, figure out your month by month consumption for the past year or two.

    Calculate your solar PV generation for each month using a tool like PV GIS

    If you've a big battery then your self consumption will be close to 100%. For some margin, subtract 90% of your monthly generation from your monthly day rate consumption (not the night consumption, solar doesn't work at night 😉)

    What's leftover is what you need to buy from the grid. Figure out the average daily consumption by dividing the day rate usage by the number of days. The highest value for a month is theoretically the ideal battery size for you (obviously there's a whole heap of factors affecting that, so take the value with a healthy dose of skepticism)

    Use the daily consumption to decide on what size battery you are going to buy. There's probably not much point in getting a bigger battery than you need for one day, at least at first

    Multiply the battery size by the number of days in a month, then subtract this number from the day rate usage for each month. Also add 120% of that number to the night rate consumption to account for losses charging the battery from the grid

    Add up the new consumption for every month and that's your new annual consumption

    Use that to figure out your annual bill, remember to add in the money you get from exporting electricity. Subtract that from your current bill to figure out the annual savings (remember to account for any discounts that are expiring, those folks on the 8c night rate are all crying these days)

    Now go and get some quotes for the system cost. Divide that by your annual savings and that's your payback period

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,990 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    One other thing to add, if getting a bigger battery then it's probably worth budgeting for a bigger inverter. Normally for a 2.7kWp array would have a 3kW inverter for example, but if you push that up to 5kW then it's less likely you'll end up importing power when running a lot of appliances at once

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,631 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    @the_amazing_raisin - "I don't think many inverters will allow you to discharge the battery to the grid"

    I haven't heard of any inverter that actually won't allow you to do that 😁

    It's exactly what I plan to do once I get a smart meter. You are right, you would have about 20% round trip losses from AC -> inverter -> battery -> inverter -> AC, but that is not all that much if FIT is nearly double what you pay for night rate. I believe this sort of peak shaving / grid stabilising is more important in the transition to fully renewable energy, than the renewable energy itself, as it is where we have the biggest shortfall. It is relatively cheap and easy to add 1GW of wind turbines to the grid. It is not easy and not cheap to add 1GWh of batteries.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,142 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    The poor things, do you put them on the treadmill for the three hours?


    For us at the moment the solar more than charges our 5kW battery and its pretty much getting us through the night. As it stands, I'm thinking of another 5kWh but the maths are actually quite tricky, as for May, June and July it wouldn't be used at all. And in the winter it'd only be used for an extra 5kWh(ish) of night rate storage.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,397 ✭✭✭Fingleberries


    I forgot to mention that would be a 5kw inverter that we're installing and that we're already on EI Smart meter plan (with 12.6c form 2-4am)


    Thanks all for the tips. I learned a lot, as always and feel that I might be heading closer to the right track for peak shaving (or to reduce the payback time) , even if I maybe can't get Fit for it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,990 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    I had to reread my own post before that made sense. Auto correct strikes again 😂

    If I'd managed to get useful energy out of cats I think I'd be in the running for a Nobel prize

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,990 ✭✭✭✭the_amazing_raisin


    True, perhaps I should say it isn't advised to discharge the battery to the grid, unless you've a utility scale battery 😉

    Personally I think the best grid balancing people can do is to shift their consumption around either through changing habits, or getting solar and batteries (or all of the above)

    Then we'll stop creating that big evening peak which helps the grid be more predictable and easier to switch to renewables

    "The internet never fails to misremember" - Sebastian Ruiz, aka Frost



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 66,631 ✭✭✭✭unkel


    @the_amazing_raisin - "perhaps I should say it isn't advised to discharge the battery to the grid"

    What on earth makes you say that? Of course it is advised, provided there is sufficient price difference between charging it up and discharging it. It makes you money, so your pay back period of your renewable system is shorter. And it stabilises the grid, extremely important in this transition. Win-win for you, for me and for everyone!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,258 ✭✭✭con747


    Put the shovel away.

    Don't expect anything from life, just be grateful to be alive.



  • Advertisement
Advertisement