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The 2023 All Ireland Senior Football Championship (Sam Maguire Cup)

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,395 ✭✭✭✭Furze99


    That would be one hell of a change in Leinster - sure Dublin have it sown up year after year.

    Make them play away from home and Louth might have a better hope.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,424 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    The Munster structure is that the provincial finalists are seeded to be in the SF the following years. That is why Limerick were SF this year and Cmare will be next year.

    Problem.in Connaught is that there is no system to seed previous years finalists. However even with London and NY there should be a method to put previous years finalists apart even allowing for NY/London rotation.

    Long-term the championship should stand on its own feet with promotion/ relegation between Tailtain and Sam competition's.

    Problem is that the structure is flawed as it should have been three tiers like every other GAA competition

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,986 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Problem in Connacht is that Sligo have only 3 titles, and Leitrim 2. No amount of tinkering around is going to change that. And it looks like it is designed to make it even harder for them to have a go.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,238 ✭✭✭theoneeyedman


    But that's not a problem with Connacht in itself, it's a symptom of inequality across the country. If you did away with the provinces altogether, which of there is a thought out structure to replace it I don't have a problem with, Galway, Mayo and to a lesser extent Roscommon will beat Leitrim and Sligo 80% + of the time, and that inequality is getting worse. It's less a problem with competition structure, than it is with population, resources, and how the wealth is spread.

    Unfortunately, the powers have no interest in equalizing things: Connacht is actually a good example this time, that game today should have been played on Sligo, but ended up being moved to Castlebar because... well because we can bring it there and fvck off Sligo.

    Hiding the likes of Sligo and Leitrim and other D4 teams will not improve things either, like is the Rackard and McDonagh cups doing anything in real terms to help weaker hurling counties? Certainly not in terms of exposure.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,555 ✭✭✭legendary.xix


    To have the league as seeding for qualifying but to not use those same seedings for the provincial championships is a flaw. When provincial finalists qualify for the All-Ireland series, the top 2 seeds in a province should be on either side of the draw.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,550 ✭✭✭✭cson


    How can you say that when it's teed up for one of them to be in the final every 4 years or so?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,419 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    But it's not teed up for them to be in the final every four years.

    Where are you getting that idea from?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,154 ✭✭✭blowitupref


    He very poor compared to his high standards and looked uninterested. Players all go through fitness tests before selected on any starting team and Galway have plenty of other forward options on the bench for him to fill in and get the job done against Sligo.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 582 ✭✭✭Avon8




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,154 ✭✭✭blowitupref


    I already heard the excuse for his performance before you mentioned it here.



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  • Posts: 1,264 ✭✭✭ Landry Large Pennon


    But surely the brutal truth is that the likes of Leitrim (pop 35,000) will never dine at the top table. You have 5 tiers in hurling with a theoretical path to the Liam McCarthy. But everyone knows that structure is there just to give an illusion of progress because in reality the weaker counties will never reach tier 1. All its really designed for is to give them a chance of playing in a final in Croke Park against teams of similar ability. The same thing will happen in football eventually IMO. The Taillteann Cup is just the thin end of the wedge of the tiering process.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,555 ✭✭✭windy shepard henderson


    id say our population for football is the same , excellent post though



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,683 ✭✭✭elefant


    Do you think it's a ruse from the Galway management, or that his performance shouldn't have been affected?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 7,238 ✭✭✭theoneeyedman


    You're right, not at the top table. The truth of it now is though that the likes on LM are not even capable of competing with D2 teams, let alone D1 teams.

    Seperating things out alone will not even things up.



  • Posts: 1,264 ✭✭✭ Landry Large Pennon


    Yes, I'd agree that tiering won't solve the inequality problem (what will?). But I think players that put in the hard yards at training in the Winter & Spring deserve a chance at a realistic crack at a Croke Park final as a just rewards for their efforts. Remember these guys want to enjoy playing football, and if they're not getting that at inter-county level, they may ditch inter-county altogether and turn to club football instead.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 209 ✭✭Lionel Fusco


    The biggest farce is of course that there are 4 tiers in the league because everyone recognises the difference in quality between the four divisions yet we've only recently gone to 2 tiers in the championship. We need to have 3 tiers at least IMO with direct promotion and relegation no play offs to save the shite team who finishes bottom like they do in Hurling.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,424 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    If you go three tiers it will be tiers of 12 and 2 groups of 6. Only one team should go down and only champions promoted. This prevents yoyoing as promoted teams are used to playing to win while weaker teams in a tier play to avoid losing.

    Bottom team in each group plays a relegation final.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,500 ✭✭✭howiya




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,424 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Not really the bottom tier can be filled out with NY, London warrickshire etc. I. A way it would be the most attractive tier

    For that matter stronger counties could put in a second team or Dublin could be split into three or four

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 209 ✭✭Lionel Fusco


    33 teams start the year so the simplest would be 3 tiers of 11 now that may not be ideal but we can't keep going with just 2 tiers given the obvious difference in quality that exists.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,424 ✭✭✭✭Bass Reeves


    Kerry and Dublin would be capable of running second squads that would be competitive in a third tier. After that you are looking for one team. Encourage Kilkenny to put a football team in.

    12 teams is too many to have a single group and dose not work for third group either

    Two top tiers of 12 and a third tier of 10 means you have to find one team. Or let it at 9 with two ground of four with NY to join at QF stage.

    Slava Ukrainii



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,037 ✭✭✭YabaDabaDooley


    Now that the boring provincials are nearly over i must say i am looking forward to what the new format brings. Looks to me there will be plenty of good matches beteeen evenly balanced teams in both the Sam and Tailteann Cup.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,419 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Sean Cavanaugh is right when he says there are too many meaningless games.

    The championship will only get going in the last group games at the earliest, at that stage some teams will have to win to secure a quarter final preliminary spot.

    For Div 1 and high Div 2 teams the rest is all shadow boxing.

    I really think that they have thrown the baby out with the bathwater when they decided is disassemble the 2001 - 2017 back door.

    In hindsight it was a good system, and as it evolved teams started to value the provincial championship more rather than less.

    And what it really did was give the lesser teams a chance to have a good run.

    Tipp, Fermanagh or Wexford are not getting to All Ireland Semi-finals in the current system, like they did with the backdoor.

    And numerous others made quarter finals

    All that was needed was to tweak the provincial structure (4 regions of 8) so that everyone started the provincial championship at the quarter final stage and everyone who lost a provincial game joined the qualifiers at the correct stage.

    It was the case that if Team A beat Team B in a Leinster or Ulster preliminary, and then lost to Team C in the provincial quarter final, Team A would start the qualifiers at the same stage as Team B, whom they beat.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,609 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    I actually think that the first round of games will be the best - for example, in Group 1, Kerry v Mayo will likely decide who finishes top while Louth (assuming Dublin win on Sunday) v Cork will likely determine who finishes 3rd.

    Add in the fact that there'll surely be a few shock results during the group stages, I think it will be interesting and I think we should at least give it a chance



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 22,986 ✭✭✭✭dxhound2005


    Revolutionary thinking there (I wonder who you have in mind for the etc.?). Warwickshire appear to be more of a hurling county like Kilkenny, so they might want to decline the offer.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,048 ✭✭✭✭pgj2015


    I was surprised to see what looked like half empty stadiums yesterday in the Connacht and Munster football finals. Anyone know why this was? cost of tickets? the unattractive everyone behind the ball football?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,419 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    But surely the brutal truth is that the likes of Leitrim (pop 35,000) will never dine at the top table.

    I think this has been lost on a lot of people.

    Leitrim never dined at the top table, nor did Sligo, or Clare.

    Leitrim got hammerings from Mayo and Galway for years and it was all part of the game.

    I think live TV games has a lot to do with the current negative narrative about football.

    In 2021 a Connacht SF Leitrim v Mayo was live on TV.

    The negativity started before a ball was kicked, everyone knew Leitrim were getting hammered, and they were, and for weeks after it was all talk about poor Leitrim, and the poor lesser counties, and what has to be done, and there need to be a secondary competition etc.

    People need to realise that being competitive at senior inter county football was always and will always be the preserve of at most half of the counties in the country, for the rest it is just not a priority.

    I was in Carlow a few years ago in the month or September and I was flicking through page after page after page of coverage of the Carlow club football championship.

    Football is alive and well in places like Carlow, it's just that they don't have the numbers or interest to be competitive at inter-county level, and there is noting wrong with that, so stop trying to shoehorn them into competitions and then bemoaning the fact that they are not making progress.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,419 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    A poster here mentioned €35 for Kerry v Clare, in the worst designed stand in the country for what was an inevitable massacre, so yea prices is a problem.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,419 ✭✭✭✭Fr Tod Umptious


    Oh I'll give it a chance alright.

    But Mayo or Kerry can lose that opening game and still be fine with a great chance to the QFs.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,609 ✭✭✭MacDanger


    Yeah, you'd expect Mayo & Kerry to both make the QFs but I think topping the group will turn out to be a big advantage as you'll have an extra week of rest compared to your opponent in the QF



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