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What does the future hold for Donald Trump? - threadbans in OP

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Comments

  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,837 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    The issue with all of the examples above is that ALL of them require direct physical access to the machines to even begin to attempt to hack them.

    Once you can confirm that the machines have not been physically accessed by unauthorised people - which has been confirmed repeatedly , then everything else is utterly moot.

    The claims made about Dominion and amplified by Fox were all about remote hacking and "data from Venezuela" or "Servers in Italy" etc. etc.

    Also - you will note that no one in the Clinton campaign or indeed any other campaign ever did anything about all these claims because they looked at them and realised that there was nothing there.

    All of the theories are based on hypothetical scenarios that did not actually occur and in most cases could not ever actually occur.

    So they remain just that - Hypothetical scenarios . not facts.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 29,824 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    He did eventually offer dna but the judge refused it -

    On February 15, Judge Kaplan dismissed Trump's offer as an out-of-line delay tactic.[54] Further, the judge argued that the presence of Trump's DNA would not conclusively prove whether a rape occurred as no sperm cells were detected.[55] In late March, the judge prohibited any mention of DNA evidence at the trial.[52][f]

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/E._Jean_Carroll_litigation_against_Donald_Trump



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    Well yes but absent that he was also arraigned. There is much speculation he was swabbed at that time.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,156 ✭✭✭✭briany


    The only people who genuinely care that Tucker's real opinions have been exposed are those who oppose him, and obviously they oppose him already, so it's much of a muchness. You know as well as I do that his followers will rationalise any cognitive dissonance to no end. And even if his followers knew he didn't believe in what he was saying, they'd still enjoy the hell out of what he was saying so long as he was saying things they like. It's not even about sincerity. It's just about furthering an agenda. Reminds me of something interesting I heard once that went something like left-leaning people believe in ideological purity above everything, whereas the right-wing believe in power above everything, so they really couldn't give a shít if the leaders of their movements are lying so long as the lies allow power to be obtained. This applies to Carlson and to Trump. It applies to every right wing grifter who makes waves, really.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,837 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    It's a case of the Emperor still has no clothes but it will just have to be a different naked emperor this time.

    Carlson being proven to be a liar won't make them stop believing the lies , they just won't want to be told those lies by Tucker Carlson anymore.

    So when Jesse Waters or Brian Kilmeade or whoever takes over the time slot they will happily continue to gorge themselves on the same lies, content in the belief that Jesse/Brian actually believe them too.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 962 ✭✭✭Burty330


    This post is factless and sourceless , and as a result truthless.

    Let me remind of all the lies and hoaxes about Russia hacking the elections. Your own news sources state the machines can be interfered with remotely.


    A Florida election software company targeted by Russians in 2016 inadvertently opened a potential pathway for hackers to tamper with voter records in North Carolina on the eve of the presidential election, according to a document reviewed by POLITICO and a person with knowledge of the episode.


    Russia’s cyberattack on the U.S. electoral system before Donald Trump’s election was far more widespread than has been publicly revealed

    These are facts being presented , not "hypotheticals" No matter how much evidence gets presented and how much facts are offered up , they will never change anybody's mind. Even this large document submitted to Congress by Democrats that details security threats and vulnerabilities in the election systems will by ignored and dismissed.

    https://www.congress.gov/event/116th-congress/house-event/LC65449/text?s=1&r=4



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 86,725 ✭✭✭✭Overheal


    This post is factless and sourceless , and as a result truthless.

    you were right, your post was these things.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,837 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    From the links you so breathlessly posted :-

    The Intercept article talks about being able potentially to access voting lists etc. not the actual votes.

    The accusations regarding Russian influence on the 2016 Election is that they used targeted attacks to change voters minds and opinions. At no point did any ever legitimately suggest that they had "changed votes that had been cast" from one side to the other

    The Politico article clearly says the following about the story they discuss.

    That wouldn’t have allowed intruders to alter the vote tallies

    Again , it talks about bad actors being potentially able to access voter rolls to try to influence voting intentions - Like when GOP activists robo-called loads of black voters to try to get them not to vote.

    And the final link from Bloomberg again posits that a bad a actor could possibly access the voter registrations and for example de-register loads of voters without their knowledge making it much more difficult for them to cast their vote.

    NONE of the examples above show proof that these things actually happened , all they say is that these are the kind of things that could happen given the right (or wrong) set of circumstances.

    What none of the links you share provide is any shred of proof that anyone anywhere has ever been able to change the destination/outcome of a vote AFTER it has been cast.

    ALL of the Trump accusations were that votes had been altered after the fact and that either extra spurious votes were added or that legitimate votes were swapped from Trump to Biden.

    NONE OF THAT EVER HAPPENED.

    Trumps team LIED and Fox had them on their shows where they allowed them to lie despite knowing beyond all reasonable doubt that they were lying and that's why they handed over the money.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,156 ✭✭✭✭briany


    They eat up what Trump is saying despite him being a proven liar. I see no great reason why they would stop consuming Carlson's rhetoric on the same basis. As i've said, it's not about whether Carlson believes in what he's saying. It's really about how the words resonate with the audience, and I believe they're well prepared to overlook suspected insincerity if the words tickle their pleasure centres hard enough.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,837 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    It's been proven by everyone else that Trump is a liar , but not directly from the man himself.

    It's a level of mental gymnastics that makes absolutely no sense to normal people but in their minds as long as they can believe that the person telling them the lies believes them too they can rationalise and explain away all the external facts and evidence to the contrary.

    The day that audio/video comes out of Trump saying that he doesn't believe that the election was stolen or that his voters are "cousin f**king idiots" or whatever , that will be a different day.



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,445 ✭✭✭TheIrishGrover


    Not only that but they seem under the impression that this could only go one way: From GQP to Dem...

    But it can go the other way too:

    In the same way:

    Dems losing the election COULD result in a failed insurrection attempt, riot and assault on capitol building by domestic terrorists

    OR

    GQP losing the election COULD result in a failed insurrection attempt, riot and assault on capitol building by domestic terrorists


    I know which MY money is on given recent history.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,156 ✭✭✭✭briany


    Both have had private records unearthed which contravene what they say publicly. Neither group of supporters particularly care about this, however. Even if they would, it's not the kind of thing that is penetrating their information bubbles. Trump made the statement about being able to shoot someone on 5th Avenue and not lose any voters. He's been largely correct about that in the sense that no matter how much dirt has been dug on him, it's not exactly shrunk his base. Carlson, by the same token, his followers love what he says and they're going to give him an awful lot of leeway. You only have to look at the fact that the texts didn't exactly come out yesterday and yet he didn't exactly lose his audience over it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,471 ✭✭✭✭astrofool


     The evidence presented proves there was truth to what Tucker said on Fox.

    I'll just leave this and $787.5M here, that is absolutely desperate levels of copium.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,851 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    The stealing the votes effort in Georgia, may be tried as racketeering. That would be very wide in its scope.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 962 ✭✭✭Burty330


    I'm talking about security vulnerabilities in voting systems. The intercept and the muller report state how Russian hackers had infiltrated ectronic voting systems. You denied that was possible by claiming someone had to have physical access to voting machines. I proved that claim flase. The only point I made was Tucker scrutinised the security of voting machines. The left/democrats agree and there has been bucket loads of evidence posted to prove it.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,007 ✭✭✭✭VinLieger


    They might be trying to pull in Lindsey Graham et al



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 962 ✭✭✭Burty330


    60-70% of democrats believed Trump was an illegitimate president because of the incessant lies and hoxes the msm peddled about Russian interference. The hypocrisy never seems to compute.




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 11,677 ✭✭✭✭salmocab


    It’s odd how fox don’t seem to count as ‘msm’ the biggest media operation isn’t main somehow. It’s almost like it’s only because conservatives like to be told that side of the story.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 6,781 ✭✭✭Flaneur OBrien




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,158 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    The same way Carlson warns others about the elites, when he is one

    Elect a clown... Expect a circus



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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,851 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    Carlson the performer, whose mask dropped.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators Posts: 16,837 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    Sadly , just like Trump and team you have "proved" absolutely nothing whatsoever.

    "Voting Machines" are not the same as what are described as the "Voting Systems" in the articles you referenced

    Voting Machines (the ones owned by Dominion )- These are the physical "booth" type machines that voters stand in front of and push buttons on to cast their vote, CANNOT be accessed remotely. The machines in the counting facilities that Tabulate those votes after they have been cast also CANNOT be accessed remotely.

    However , there are several systems at State and Federal level that contain the details of the voter register - Names, addresses , party affiliation etc.

    These are connected to the Internet for various reasons and they could be messed with to remove people from the voter roll etc.

    Whilst it is technically possible for someone to remotely hack into those voter registration database type systems and mess with them , no one has ever provided evidence that anyone has ever actually accessed live data and changed it for nefarious purposes.

    What there is evidence of is that people have obtained offline copies of the list of voters along with polling data (as supplied to the Russians by Paul Manafort in 2016 for example) and used that information to target voters to influence their choice of candidate by hitting them with robo-calls and targeted adverts on Facebook etc.

    That is "Election Interference/Influencing" and that happened in the US in 2016 and it also happened in the UK via Cambridge Analytica for Brexit.

    However ,the actual act of hacking a voting or tabulation machine and changing the result after votes have been cast has never been found to have happened.

    It is NOT possible for the actual machines used on voting day to gather votes and to count them afterwards to be remotely hacked and for votes to be added/removed or changed , which is what the Trump campaign repeatedly lied about on Fox News.

    Team Trump never claimed that people tried to "influence" the election by using stolen data to convince people to change their minds , they claimed without a single solitary shred of evidence that Team Biden had hacked the voting machines to change/add/remove votes to alter the result in their favour.

    That is a lie , they knew it was a lie , FOX knew it was a lie but they allowed the Trump mouthpieces to come on their shows to spread their lies, credulously encouraged by a variety of Fox Presenters.

    And because of that , Fox News had to hand over $787 Million Dollars to Dominion.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,946 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,158 ✭✭✭✭everlast75


    Carlson called election deniers and trump fans idiots, and yet there's no shortage of them defending him.


    Incredible.

    Elect a clown... Expect a circus



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭I.R.Y.E.D


    At this stage saying that the election was stolen, you have to be the offspring of parents who were closely related, or they rocked ya to close to the wall.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,642 ✭✭✭Glencarraig


    They would need to get in line behind the Burkes !!



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,642 ✭✭✭Glencarraig


    Or just wait until he opens his mouth, there would be enough sh*te spewing from it.

    Post edited by Glencarraig on


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 40,946 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Well there was one thing he was right about at least.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,642 ✭✭✭Glencarraig




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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,187 ✭✭✭I.R.Y.E.D


    I would imagine that they form a very small percentage of the American population that have a valid passport.

    Unless I've misunderstood and you mean the Irish ones.



This discussion has been closed.
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