Advertisement
Help Keep Boards Alive. Support us by going ad free today. See here: https://subscriptions.boards.ie/.
https://www.boards.ie/group/1878-subscribers-forum

Private Group for paid up members of Boards.ie. Join the club.
Hi all, please see this major site announcement: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058427594/boards-ie-2026

Orange is the new Burke

1255256258260261686

Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 632 ✭✭✭squidgainz




  • Subscribers, Paid Member Posts: 44,929 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Enoch's gripe was with the board of management, so all his haranguing of the principal was a waste of time to begin with. Enoch knew this so the spectacle he caused at that mass and dinner was simply a show and nothing more.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,729 ✭✭✭francois




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,645 ✭✭✭✭OldGoat


    Hopefully someone with a better religious background can clarify but isn't the Burke family guilty of Pride and Wrath, two of the cardinal sins? It would take a braver man that I to challenge them to a theology debate but perhaps such a debate might offer some opportunity of a stepdown from the brinkmanship on display.

    I'm older than Minecraft goats.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,408 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    Firstly, they're part of an evangelical group. So you can throw everything you know about Christianity, which for most Irish people is Catholicism, out the window. It's quite possible that righteous pride and wrath are allowed in their version of it.

    Secondly, even if it's not allowed, psychologically they might not even realise they're doing it. They'll call the dopamine rush they're getting joy in doing God's work. And that God is making them feel good and giving them strength. To believe they way they do, and act the way they do, takes a lot of dissonance.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 283 ✭✭GarfieldandPookyBear


    I’m not very religious but I do the mass thing etc because I’m a parent and they’re involved in the children’s mass and seem to enjoy it for now. I won’t force them like my parents did with us. I think what matters is to be as good a Christian as you can by how you treat others. The Burkes seem to me to be far from the Christian values I was raised with but then I don’t know much about their religion and of course it’s open to interpretation. Then again, we were beaten in school by nuns and priests so just because you’re religious, doesn’t mean you’re kind, charitable or better than anyone else.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 31,318 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    The seven cardinal or deadly sins were a Catholic concept, not a biblical one.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,645 ✭✭✭✭OldGoat


    See, I knew someone smarter that me would come along. :)

    I'm older than Minecraft goats.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,139 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    A Biblical quote the Burkes seem to have missed:

    Matthew 5:25-26

    25 "Settle matters quickly with your adversary who is taking you to court. Do it while you are still together on the way, or your adversary may hand you over to the judge, and the judge may hand you over to the officer, and you may be thrown into prison. 26 Truly I tell you, you will not get out until you have paid the last penny.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,797 ✭✭✭Former Former Former


    such a debate might offer some opportunity of a stepdown from the brinkmanship on display

    What about the last six months makes you think the Burkes would be remotely open to debate?

    Jesus could descend from his fluffy cloud tomorrow, tell the Burkes to cop the f**k on, and they still wouldn't change course. Poor Jesus would probably find himself in front of a WRC tribunal or something.

    Honestly, it's long past time we stopped pretending this is anything to do with religion. It absolutely isn't. It never was.

    This is 100% exclusively about hating people who are different.



  • Advertisement
  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    There are two phases to this really.

    When the initial instruction came from the school regarding the pupil, what he SHOULD have done is raise a grievance via the existing, clearly documented Grievance process and managed his complaint through that pathway.

    Had he done that and had he displayed even the tiniest modicum of compromise a solution might have been achieved. Remember, he didn't actually teach the child in question so his likely exposure to them would have been very small.

    Failing that he could have worked his way through that process and through the courts facilitating a valuable legal discussion on confirming where the balance exists between Equality law and religious exemptions etc.

    I doubt he'd have been happy with the outcome though.

    Having failed to take that first step , his next opportunity to behave like a normal person would have been following his suspension. He could have observed the terms of his suspension and fought his corner in the disciplinary hearings , likely rolling onward through to the WRC and the courts.

    Here again , he was unlikely to be happy with the outcome as beyond the school possibly making an error in procedure he would be extremely unlikely to get the result he wants - Which is his re-instatement AND that the instruction regarding Transgender students be permanently removed.

    The key element here is that in both of his genuine legal pathways in this case , I firmly believe that he knows he's on to a hiding to nothing. There is just no way that the courts are going to over-rule Equality laws in favour of an extremist Religious viewpoint.

    That is why he has chosen the path he has , because now the actual legal argument regarding the recognition of a transgender student will never be heard and as such he will never technically "lose" that position.

    This way he gets lots of attention for his "cause" and gets to display to God (or Mammy) how loyal a foot soldier he is in the great battle against evil.

    It would seem that the fact that he and his family have utterly destroyed any hopes of careers in their chosen professions is a price they are willing to pay , along with going to Prison for extended periods.

    I genuinely don't know how this ends as it's very hard to envision a scenario where the Burkes pack up their circus and go home.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,408 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    image.png


    They're widely displayed in catholic churches but they're not really part of the dogma. And there's non catholic denominations that reference them. It's probably best thought of as "Western christian tradition". A lot of protestant denominations keep a lot of catholic traditions. Although a lot of the newer evangelical groups ditched everything.

    So the actual answer is that they probably don't but who the fcuk knows.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,318 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    The idea of there being 7 deadly sins was invented by the catholic church. the bible doesnt mention them in that way so i would be surprised if evangelicals like the Burkes would think of them in that way.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 31,318 ✭✭✭✭looksee


    https://www.britannica.com/topic/seven-deadly-sins

    First enumerated by Pope Gregory I (the Great) in the 6th century and elaborated in the 13th century by St. Thomas Aquinas

    https://www.crosswalk.com/faith/bible-study/does-the-bible-actually-mention-seven-deadly-sins.html

    The Bible does not categorize pride, greed, lust, envy, gluttony, wrath, and sloth as the 'seven deadly sins.' They are mentioned by different names in all kinds of places.

    It is true that the sins listed are mentioned individually, directly or indirectly, in various places in the Bible, but as a concept of 'seven deadly sins' or cardinal sins, that was a later assemblage.

    There are such a lot of things in the Bible and Christian teaching that the family ignore as it suits them that it is not surprising that they ignore these. Righteousness seems to be their main concern.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 283 ✭✭GarfieldandPookyBear


    Funny you mention “debate”. Weren’t they on a debate team and teach debating skills in their school? How did they cope when asked to debate on a subject they didn’t agree with and what skills do they teach when having to to do so? Excuse the pun but they don’t seem to practice what they preach! 🫣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,139 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa


    The tradition of the seven deadly sins is actually quite strong amongst evangelicals, even though they're not mentioned in the bible.

    Arch evangelical preacher Billy Graham wrote two books about them::



    Here's his justification for discussing them:

    Pope Gregory the Great, at the end of the sixth century, divided all sins under seven heads. He said that every sin that a man commits can be classified by seven words. He named the sins: pride, anger, envy, impurity, gluttony, slothfullness and avarice. The have been called down through the centuries "the seven deadly sins." These sins are nowhere collectively mentioned in a single passage in the Bible, and yet they are all condemned separately in many places.

    They're mentioned in a lot of contemporary evangelical websites too.

    As for the Burkes, who knows if they regard the list as being significant, but they would certainly recognise each one individually as a sin, as they're all specifically called out in various places in the bible.

    Of course, it gets complicated. The sin of Pride is taking credit for your actions or achievements, when you should be giving the credit to God. The sin of Wrath is taking retribution on people, when you should be leaving that to God. So actions that one person may condemn as pride or wrath, could be justified in the name of God to the believer. As always, there's a get-out clause: I'm doing it in God's name, so it can't be a sin. And the Bible is so contradictory that there's plenty of passages that justify pride and wrath in various ways.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,358 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    So, is Enoch still free and being allowed to openly defy the court order or has anything actually been done?

    What measures have been put in place to recover the fines he owes?



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,139 ✭✭✭Gregor Samsa



    So, is Enoch still free and being allowed to openly defy the court order

    Yes.

     or has anything actually been done?

    No, other an the fine being accrued.

    What measures have been put in place to recover the fines he owes?

    None so far.



  • Posts: 9,954 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    They do not appear to be part of a larger evangelical group, if so it has never been named.

    They appear to be their own Burke Family version of Christianity. As it is not Catholic, it must be Protestant and within that are categorised as evangelical as they follow the word of Bible as gospel, rather than the Pope, King of England or some other man/woman/alien etc...



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 283 ✭✭GarfieldandPookyBear


    It was due to be heard but he was late to court so it was adjourned.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,408 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    But when Protestantism was created it didn't ditch everything from the catholic church. It was still very similar. And all of the evangelical movements are just offshoots of those groups. Some added stuff. Some removed stuff. Some added in stuff that had previously been removed by other groups. Over the years there's so many different flavors of Christianity that it's almost impossible to assign any one belief to any one group.

    Edit: For example here's a non catholic church that references them. https://www.episcopalchurch.org/glossary/seven-deadly-sins/



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 632 ✭✭✭squidgainz




  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,318 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    episcopalians are not evangelicals. The burkes have little in common with them.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 16,307 ✭✭✭✭Pherekydes




  • Moderators, Politics Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 17,421 Mod ✭✭✭✭Quin_Dub


    I did see something saying that there was to be a ruling on the fines this week - Not sure if that is a ruling on whether it remains at €700/day or if it's about taking action to actually recover the money.

    Also his Court appeal against his sacking is down for the 28th , this despite the school being late in supplying some of the requested documentation. The school say the delay was because Burke requested a lot more documentation than they expected as part Discovery. The courts still gave them a slap on the wrists about it though.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 283 ✭✭GarfieldandPookyBear


    I had the 28th in my head alright but I wasn’t sure what was what 😂. Isn’t O’Moore handling both issues? Do we know yet is he running them together or keeping them separate? This could go on for years with all their cases 🫣



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,408 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    They're also not catholic. That was the point. People were saying that the Burkes couldn't believe in the 7 deadly sins because the 7 deadly sins were catholic. I was pointing out that they're not exclusively catholic. Episcopals were the first ones that cropped up when I googled protestantism. If you look up evangelicals you'll find some groups that do.

    The 7 deadly sins are more of a christian tradition rather than a hard and fast rule. Some churches use them, some don't. Just because a denomination is protestant or evangelical doesn't preclude them from having them or referencing them. Many of them will and many won't.


    I'm going to drop this now. Because this is a weird argument that's going round in circles.



  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,318 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    I said they wouldn't use the term 7 deadly sins because they are evangelical. it was somebody else who said it was not a non-catholic thing.



  • Posts: 9,954 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    It obviously does not appear in the Mamma Burke version of the bible.



  • Advertisement
  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,408 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    See, I could have swore that somewhere in this thread it was mentioned that they were part of some larger umbrella evangelical group. The umbrella group was a collection of smaller ones used for facilitating certain things. But I've been googling and it seems like you're 100% right. It's just them. I can't find any reference to any other group.



Advertisement
Advertisement