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M4 - Maynooth to Leixlip [planning and design underway]

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  • Posts: 0 [Deleted User]


    A question from someone who drives west (waaay out west) often enough and finds the exit for Maynooth causing huge problems (I’ve read a good part of the thread) for those of us going further. What system is used to control traffic lights at these exit junctions? I’m just curious, not suggesting that there is any other fix than the ones the professionals have. Is it integrated into other traffic control systems? It just seems that complex problems with so many variables like traffic management (even accepting a lot of solution is proper public transport) are ripe for disruption; don’t know if that heads into other territory or ML or AI. So can anyone tell me the state of play with this control systems. Might just be timers of course.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,036 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    Which traffic lights are you referring to because there aren't any on the slip roads (that I'm aware of)?



  • Registered Users Posts: 23,555 ✭✭✭✭Kermit.de.frog


    Typical Irish second rate cheapest options on display. This should be minimum 3×3 lanes both directions, all junctions made freeflow with no bus lanes which are a safety hazard on a motorway and should only be on secondary roads. This is what proper countries do, but not Ireland.

    We'll be coming back to this to add more lanes in 15 years, probably less.

    What an absurd country. Saving cents at the expense of common sense.



  • Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭brianc89




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,901 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    Traffic lights at junctions in Maynooth are an absolute nightmare. Of course it has an impact for motorway traffic at peaks times. The next set of lights that go in in the town should be ripped out.



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  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek




  • Registered Users Posts: 6,901 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    The lights at the junction for lidl in maynooth and the meadowbrook link road cause havoc for traffic coming into maynooth from motorway and straffan direction.



  • Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 39,036 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    If the lights weren't there then you'd surely see more collisions. However, the main reason traffic is busy there is because of the number of people choosing to drive (adding to traffic), not some traffic lights.

    Anyhow, let's get back to discussing the M4 motorway upgrade and not some of the many local traffic issues in Maynooth!



  • Registered Users Posts: 910 ✭✭✭brianc89


    I think you seriously don't understand the concept of Induced Demand.

    Surely you've heard of it, it's hardly a new concept. Basic principle - if you widen roads you simply encourage more people into cars and soon enough you're back to where you began.

    Endlessly chasing your tail building more and more, wider and wider, roads. Public transport is the solution. You fact you are giving out about adding bus lanes is laughable.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,901 ✭✭✭Gusser09


    15 sets of lights between new schools and businness park. Off topic i know.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,059 ✭✭✭buffalo



    If there was a surplus of vacant houses available immediately in a good location and free to absolutely anyone for their private use, then yes, more people would probably come to take advantage of them.



  • Registered Users Posts: 574 ✭✭✭Aontachtoir


    Doesn’t the same principle apply to public transport? I guess the difference is that rather than sitting bored in your car in a traffic jam, you are squished in with an ever-increasing number of riders on the bus, the tram, etc. Anyone who has spent time riding the Luas to work over the years can attest to how demand for it has exploded as development surged along the Luas line.

    Managed, sensible growth is a good thing, and increased demand is a reflection of a society with greater choices and options. Any intervention which improves people’s lives will induce demand. If we avoided anything that could induce demand out of some religious phobia, we would never build another school, hospital, or house in this country. We certainly wouldn’t build more demand-inducing public transport infrastructure.



  • Registered Users Posts: 8,059 ✭✭✭buffalo


    "Improving people's lives" is doing a lot of heavy lifting in that post.



  • Registered Users Posts: 9,259 ✭✭✭markpb


    The difference between induced demand for cars and public transport is that one is cost efficient, space efficient, equitable for all elements of society and emits relatively little air and noise pollution for the number of passengers carried. The other is…. not.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,766 ✭✭✭Pete_Cavan


    Kildare Co Co have already prepared a Part 8 and its out to consultation for eastbound Bus Priority Measures between Junction 7 Maynooth and Junction 5 Leixlip. They propose to convert the hard shoulder to a bus lane and add some emergency refuge areas instead. I know it would be more disruptive and expensive but I think a better solution would be to keep the hard shoulder and take the space from the central reserve, replacing it with a concrete barrier.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Is that really coming under the aegis of this scheme? Sounds like a horrible way to proceed. Hard shoulder running on motorways was done in a few places in the UK but is thoroughly out of favour now.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,542 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    Does anyone else find these climate measures to be little more than penny pinching.

    Widen the road and quit the madness.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,858 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    This was done at Newlands years ago and is still done on the Chapelizod bypass (Despite some trees not helping) and worked perfectly. Converting a hard shoulder into a bus lane is fine. Having all-lane-running on a motorway, where the hard shoulder is converted into a running lane, is a bad idea.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,542 ✭✭✭veryangryman


    Chapeltizod bypass isn't a motorway chuck.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,858 ✭✭✭Chris_5339762


    I know, and neither was the N7 at Newlands. But it still goes to show that there is, at least, SOME precedent.



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  • Registered Users Posts: 4 breaksman


    Judging by the plans online this will be a conversion from hard shoulder to buslane, which is a mistake in my book although the cheapest option I assume.

    Documents available here

    kildarecoco.ie/en/consultation/part-8-proposed-m4-bus-priority-measures-planning-ref-p8202220



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,175 ✭✭✭highdef


    You would hope that the bus lane will be strictly enforced by way of cameras. In reality, probably not and it'll be a free for all, seeing as the emergency lane is frequently used as a driving lane whenever traffic is heavy.

    Operations wise, would buses on the bus lane exit at every junction and then rejoin? Otherwise I can foresee a rather dangerous interaction where the off ramps begin.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    "seeing as the emergency lane is frequently used as a driving lane whenever traffic is heavy."

    This might be an exaggeration. Never seen it.



  • Registered Users Posts: 6,175 ✭✭✭highdef


    Have seen it many a time in the morning rush hour, pre COVID (I rarely drive towards Dublin during peak morning traffic anymore, so can't comment on the frequency of it in the most recent few years). Between junction 7 and 6 was usually where it occured most frequently when traffic was heavier than normal.



  • Registered Users Posts: 5,619 ✭✭✭TheBody


    I regularly travel the M4 and exit at Maynooth. The emergency lane is frequently used by cars when the driving lanes stop moving.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,902 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    Its exceptionally common for drivers going off at Celbridge/Leixlip West eastbound to use the shoulder to skip a backlogged mainline.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,902 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    KCC councillors being told that the proposal for an eastbound bus lane replacing the shoulder, plus resurfacing and some junction adjustments; is expected to go to tender with a 2024 construction date.

    I would strongly prefer a widening westbound only to 3 general traffic lanes + this eastbound bus lane. A third traffic lane inbound would be feeding to roads with no more capacity; but outbound there are severe issues caused by chaotic merging as well as just general volume until Maynooth.

    When this goes ahead, there really needs to be another look at having an express bus service from Maynooth. There was one a day in the old days - a 0755 66X that went via the motorway - but preferably something that isn't a 65km/h city bus this time.



  • Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators Posts: 4,974 Mod ✭✭✭✭spacetweek


    Absolutely shocking how watered down this is compared to how it was planned.

    Supposed to be 6 lanes. Converting the breakdown lane to a bus lane is just paint.



  • Moderators, Business & Finance Moderators, Motoring & Transport Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 67,902 Mod ✭✭✭✭L1011


    They are having to adjust the width under bridges also. Really nothing major, looks like it has been slashed to meet budgets



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  • Registered Users Posts: 8,059 ✭✭✭buffalo


    Carbon budgets. Hard to justify adding extra lanes for private traffic when car journeys need to be reduced to meet our emissions targets.



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